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Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE (HBO MAX) (2021)
(03-13-2021, 02:06 AM)barry woodward Wrote: Patty Jenkins on WTF With Marc Maron: "There was such mistrust of a different way of doing things and a different point of view. So that was definitely happening, even when I first joined Wonder Woman it was like, 'Uhh, yeah, ok, but let's do it this other way.' But I was like, 'Women don't want to see that. Her being harsh and tough and cutting people's heads off, that's not what—I'm a Wonder Woman fan, that's not what we're looking for.'"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq_inLdVgAAR...=4096x4096

And yet she made Wonder Woman into a real asshole in the last film.


(03-13-2021, 01:53 AM)headless fett Wrote: Gee, I wonder whose idea for that mass rape of the Amazons was.

Not Patty. In her film the Amazon does the raping.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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Like I want to agree with her... But she made Wondie a rapist and kidnapper.
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(03-13-2021, 02:18 AM)freeman Wrote: Like I want to agree with her... But she made Wondie a rapist and kidnapper.

Not to mention in the first Wonder Woman film, the good one, she actually did kill people. I mean except for the that one woman who gassed people to death. She deserved mercy of course
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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HAHAHAHA that WOULD be Zack's background for them.

HARDCORE BRO
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(03-13-2021, 02:15 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: And yet she made Wonder Woman into a real asshole in the last film.

Not on purpose!

Evidence indicates that Jenkins is a bad writer who tried to make a good Wonder Woman movie, and succeeded 1 of 2 times.

Snyder is a bad writer who -tries- to make bad DC movies.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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In the first first Wonder Woman she straight up murders a bad guy with ZERO remorse. I'm not saying I have any problem with it, I don't, but she actually did make her harsh.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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(03-13-2021, 03:21 AM)farsight Wrote:
(03-13-2021, 02:15 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: And yet she made Wonder Woman into a real asshole in the last film.

Not on purpose!

Evidence indicates that Jenkins is a bad writer who tried to make a good Wonder Woman movie, and succeeded 1 of 2 times.

Snyder is a bad writer who -tries- to make bad DC movies.

And yet every Snyder movie featuring Wonder Woman didn't have her raping or ignoring an innocent man's death for selfish reasons.

(03-13-2021, 03:29 AM)Evi Wrote: In the first first Wonder Woman she straight up murders a bad guy with ZERO remorse. I'm not saying I have any problem with it, I don't, but she actually did make her harsh.

She did! The comical thing is that I think she tried to course correct in the second movie with Diana winking at little girls and not killing anyone but ultimately made her do WAY WORSE things than killing the bad guy.

Although those bodyguards.........
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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This is all execution-dependent. There's a reason that nobody complains that Captain America or Iron Man or Wonder Woman kill people and Zacks heroes do cause complaints, and the reason is not "people hate Zack."
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Killing someone in the heat of battle is one thing. Holding a bag of severed heads for a photo op is something else.
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it's barely heat of battle. She has him caught, walks up to him and executes him. The difference is all tonal. In Wonder Woman, exciting music plays as she talks about completing her mission. In Snyder films, killing someone is a darker deed.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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That happens in the first movie? I’ve only seen it once in theaters.
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Yeah, she executes Danny Huston.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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Oh yeaaahhhh, because she thought it would “end the war” or something.
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(03-13-2021, 04:31 AM)Evi Wrote: it's barely heat of battle. She has him caught, walks up to him and executes him. The difference is all tonal. In Wonder Woman, exciting music plays as she talks about completing her mission. In Snyder films, killing someone is a darker deed.

Plus BvS has the two men being hypocrites who don't like the other because they're violent killers.  Plus everything about Batman is designed NOT to kill people, such as fighting thugs with his bare hands, but then he will kill all the time and the Batmobile has giant machine guns on it.  So it's NOT an elseworlds Thomas Wayne version of Batman who uses guns, but it also is...  And he wants to murder Superman for being a non-human killer of humans...  He spends the entire movie psyching himself up for this act, but he's killing dudes before he has the chance to kill Clark and he kills dudes after, so he didn't learn not to kill, but instead he learned...  Not to judge a book by it's cover before you fucking MURDER it.  But if it's a shitty book by all means murder it, but not efficiently murder it by hand so you can see the light go out in their eyes...

Captain America is a soldier who doesn't WANT to kill anyone, but he will to protect the innocent from evil and bullies.  Done.  Covered.  Tracks.  Makes sense.

(03-13-2021, 05:06 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: Oh yeaaahhhh, because she thought it would “end the war” or something.

Her character is well-meaning but explicitly portrayed as naive. It works, in the context of the story.
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It does track within the context of the film, but it'd also break down of she showed any real remorse. If she went, even for a moment, "oh God, what have I done??" that scene would've made more waves. Cap does the same thing, they walk a tonal tightrope where killing actually isn't presented as such a bad thing. It's not awful or brutal, just necessary. Snyder's not so interested in that. I get why that puts some people off.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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Brutality assigned to characters designed to appeal to all ages puts people off?

Naaaaah.
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(03-13-2021, 01:53 AM)headless fett Wrote: Gee, I wonder whose idea for that mass rape of the Amazons was.


It's an old thing from the comics. It's why when Wonder Woman meets Hercules in the JLA/Avengers comic she starts a fight with him, not knowing he isn't the same person.

Batman isn't really designed to not kill people. Hitting people so hard they fly across the room is only "designed not to kill" when you're playing things very cartoony. If you're in like Dick Sprang territory. The more "real" you want to play Batman, which is where Batman has been in the comics for like four decades now, the more Batman's no kill rule kind of doesn't make sense. Even accidently there such be a number of criminals that die in fights with Batman.

There's nothing hypocritical about Batman wanting to kill Superman in that Batman V Superman movie. You can have a character that kills criminals not be ok with a character destroying a city full of people in a fight. That movie has problems, it has stupid shit, but that not jiving together isn't a problem the movie has.
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What? Very cartoony? He’s a literal cartoon from a comic book goof.

And yes it’s objectively hypocritical to want to kill someone for the crime of killing. That’s a literal objective fact you cannot disagree with it.
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This video reminded me of everything we criticize Snyder for.



If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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(03-13-2021, 08:07 AM)freeman Wrote: What? Very cartoony? He’s a literal cartoon from a comic book goof.

And yes it’s objectively hypocritical to want to kill someone for the crime of killing. That’s a literal objective fact you cannot disagree with it.

Batman is not played like a cartoon character in the comics. They've been playing him realistically, more or less, since the '80s. The movies have been playing Batman realistically since the Nolan films. If it's inviting you to think about it realistically, as opposed to thinking of it like a fun cartoon character, it's inviting you to think about what can actually happen when you beat the shit out of people in reality. Shit, even guns in a cartoony sitting don't have to kill, but if you started asking people to think about such a character realistically it starts punching holes in things.

No, it is not objectively hypocritical because they aren't the same thing. One character is a vigilante that kills criminals, the other destroyed a city, killing who knows how many bystanders in the process. Now if Batman was doing things like bombing buildings full of innocent people to get to some badguy you'd have a point, but he's not doing that. May as well say the actions of Captain America and Shin Godzilla are the same, because when you really boil things down, they did both kill people. Why did the Avengers care that Thanos took out half of the universe? I mean, the Avengers have and do kill people. What are they, a team of hypocrites?
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Batman in BvS has nothing to do with reality. At all. He’s fighting a literal god and he can take on a room full of mercs with assault rifles bare handed. He can judo toss guys all the way across the room or what’s worse, punch a guy 20 feet across the room. The irony of Snyder’s “you’re living in a fantasy world” quote is not just that Gotham is a fantasy world, but so is his version of Batman explicitly.

And if the avengers were mad at another super hero team who killed and wanted to murder them for their killing, yes they’d be hypocrites. What am I doing responding to Princess Kate?

(03-13-2021, 12:57 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: This video reminded me of everything we criticize Snyder for.




For those of you who love The Dark Knight Returns unironically, and still consider Frank Miller to be a satirical genius who wrote a masterpiece on the level of Alan Moore... You owe it to yourself to watch that video. Frank Miller doesn't have a satirical bone in his entire body. Holy Terror is a disgusting vile piece of trash. Frank Miller is an asshole.

Grant Morrison on the other hand, is one of the greatest comic book minds of all time. This quote in regards to Holy Terror, Frank Millers attempt to put Batman in a post 9-11 story Muslim terrorists (before DC told him he couldn't use Bats for the story) is an all time burn.

"Batman vs. Al Qaeda! It might as well be Bin Laden vs. King Kong! Or how about the sinister Al Qaeda mastermind up against a hungry Hannibal Lecter! For all the good it's likely to do. Cheering on a fictional character as he beats up fictionalized terrorists seems like a decadent indulgence when real terrorists are killing real people in the real world. I'd be so much more impressed if Frank Miller gave up all this graphic novel nonsense, joined the Army and, with a howl of undying hate, rushed headlong onto the front lines with the young soldiers who are actually risking life and limb 'vs.' Al Qaeda."

"We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be."
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Don't engage with racistbob, Freeman. It's not worth it.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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I forgot who I was talking to. WATCH THAT VIDEO!
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(03-13-2021, 08:23 PM)freeman Wrote: Batman in BvS has nothing to do with reality. At all. He’s fighting a literal god and he can take on a room full of mercs with assault rifles bare handed. He can judo toss guys all the way across the room or what’s worse, punch a guy 20 feet across the room. The irony of Snyder’s “you’re living in a fantasy world” quote is not just that Gotham is a fantasy world, but so is his version of Batman explicitly.

And if the avengers were mad at another super hero team who killed and wanted to murder them for their killing, yes they’d be hypocrites. What am I doing responding to Princess Kate?

(03-13-2021, 12:57 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: This video reminded me of everything we criticize Snyder for.




For those of you who love The Dark Knight Returns unironically, and still consider Frank Miller to be a satirical genius who wrote a masterpiece on the level of Alan Moore... You owe it to yourself to watch that video. Frank Miller doesn't have a satirical bone in his entire body. Holy Terror is a disgusting vile piece of trash. Frank Miller is an asshole.
LMAO, Miller being an asshole aside, to say Dark Knight Returns, the comic where Superman fights for American military interests in South America under the orders of Reagan, isn't satirical... well...
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Batman isn't mad because another superhero killed some badguys, he's mad because Superman destroyed a fucking city which would have killed countless innocent people in the process. You can still hate Batman v Superman and not be deliberately obtuse about this.
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(03-13-2021, 08:50 PM)atomtastic Wrote:
(03-13-2021, 08:23 PM)freeman Wrote: Batman in BvS has nothing to do with reality. At all. He’s fighting a literal god and he can take on a room full of mercs with assault rifles bare handed. He can judo toss guys all the way across the room or what’s worse, punch a guy 20 feet across the room. The irony of Snyder’s “you’re living in a fantasy world” quote is not just that Gotham is a fantasy world, but so is his version of Batman explicitly.

And if the avengers were mad at another super hero team who killed and wanted to murder them for their killing, yes they’d be hypocrites. What am I doing responding to Princess Kate?

(03-13-2021, 12:57 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: This video reminded me of everything we criticize Snyder for.




For those of you who love The Dark Knight Returns unironically, and still consider Frank Miller to be a satirical genius who wrote a masterpiece on the level of Alan Moore...  You owe it to yourself to watch that video.  Frank Miller doesn't have a satirical bone in his entire body.  Holy Terror is a disgusting vile piece of trash.  Frank Miller is an asshole.
LMAO, Miller being an asshole aside, to say Dark Knight Returns, the comic where Superman fights for American military interests in South America under the orders of Reagan, isn't satirical... well...

It's not sattire.  Frank Miller genuinely does not understand Superman.  Definitely not well enough to make satire out of him.  Frank really is this "fuck the liberal snowflakes, you need a real man to get it done" asshole he writes as.  Don't believe me?  Read interviews.  Read Holy Terror.

It's not really constructive social criticism if it's just what you believe.
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Frank Miller is a liberal. He was even more liberal pre-9/11, although he's still liberal now too.

The Dark Knight Returns is also very clearly meant to be funny. It's clearly satirical. You want to see his non-satirical Batman, look at Year One.
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That is objectively and obviously a lie. Stop lying to people Kate.
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Don't be as lazy as Fett, Freeman, you're better than that.
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It’s hilariously bad faith to say nothing in DKR is satirical. What about the talking media heads? Carrie Kelly’s dropout parents, how quickly the mutant gangs swing from one side of fascism to the other?

Miller definitely identified as liberal pre 9/11. You can read the issues of Dark Knight Strikes Again released before 9/11 and the ones released after 9/11 to see how it broke his brain.
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(03-13-2021, 09:34 PM)atomtastic Wrote: It’s hilariously bad faith to say nothing in DKR is satirical. What about the talking media heads? Carrie Kelly’s dropout parents, how quickly the mutant gangs swing from one side of fascism to the other?

Miller definitely identified as liberal pre 9/11. You can read the issues of Dark Knight Strikes Again released before 9/11 and the ones released after 9/11 to see how it broke his brain.

The talking heads are what Frank Miller unironically feels about liberals.
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I’ve never read Miller’s DKR, and after watching that video I’ve lost any interest I ever had.

And Jesus, that artwork is atrocious.
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(03-13-2021, 05:06 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: Oh yeaaahhhh, because she thought it would “end the war” or something.

Yeah, she thought he was the god of war in disguise and killing him would end the war.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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(03-13-2021, 09:50 PM)freeman Wrote:
(03-13-2021, 09:34 PM)atomtastic Wrote: It’s hilariously bad faith to say nothing in DKR is satirical. What about the talking media heads? Carrie Kelly’s dropout parents, how quickly the mutant gangs swing from one side of fascism to the other?

Miller definitely identified as liberal pre 9/11. You can read the issues of Dark Knight Strikes Again released before 9/11 and the ones released after 9/11 to see how it broke his brain.

The talking heads are what Frank Miller unironically feels about liberals.
You don't have to agree with the politics for it to be satirical.

How do you explain how critical it is towards Reagan if Miller is simply a right wing nut?

And just for posterity.

https://www.comicsbeat.com/hillary-clint...ii-and-iv/
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How do I delete a thread, again?
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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