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Marvel's BLACK WIDOW (2021): A "ScarJo wants to get paid!" Post-Release Thread
(07-15-2021, 03:25 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: It should've been Quantum of Solace so there could be a record scratch moment when she sees David Harbour..

And when she sees Olga Kurylenko!
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(07-13-2021, 01:10 AM)Nooj Wrote: It's more that I sense a similar disparity to how you can tell which shots in KILL BILL are of Zoe Bell.  Her movement is much more sharp and precise compared to Thurman's.




Bell is a much better driver than Thurman, too.

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(07-15-2021, 03:28 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:
(07-15-2021, 03:25 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: It should've been Quantum of Solace so there could be a record scratch moment when she sees David Harbour..

And when she sees Olga Kurylenko!

Oh snap!

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(07-15-2021, 03:36 PM)Overlord Wrote:

Bell is a much better driver than Thurman, too.
oof!
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Daryl Hannah was the best Driver..

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(07-15-2021, 02:12 PM)damndirtyape Wrote: You guys must be a lot of fun at parties.

I'm usually the weirdo passed out and/or doing coke.  Whichever is closest.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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If heroin is closest, I'd hope you'd make the extra effort to get to the coke my dude.

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(07-15-2021, 02:25 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I think Natasha being a fan of one of the supposed "bad" Bond films (per conventional wisdom; I like MOONRAKER a lot!) is an even nicer touch than if she had been watching one of the agreed-upon classics.

Watching a movie about a villain with a secret lair in space and end this film with a villain with a secret lair in space (or at least abutting the troposphere).

I guess this is what passes for subtle these days by the MCU.
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Hugo Drax > Ray Winstone.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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There was an afternoon when I start to talk like Ray Winstone, and that's what I did for the rest of the day.

Ah, what fun!
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I'm just mystified as to why they didn't hire ... I don't know ... an actual Russian for the part?

Surely someone could have slipped them the number for the makers of The Americans, they might have known a few people they could have contacted.
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They could've hired Russians to play everyone else, too.

These people are actors. They've got it covered.
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(07-15-2021, 08:12 PM)shan Wrote: I'm just mystified as to why they didn't hire ... I don't know ... an actual Russian for the part?

Surely someone could have slipped them the number for the makers of The Americans, they might have known a few people they could have contacted.

Because Ray Winstone is awesome and they wanted to work with him.
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Were the kids at the beginning actually from Ohio?
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It's not Ray Winstone's fault he was given such a nothing role.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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shan gonna shan.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Shan absolutely gotta Shan all over the place.
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Well, heaven forbid I should want something approaching borderline competent.

Let's be honest with ourselves, this is not a good film. Actually, it's quite a bad one.

I can't remember which review covered this but they compared this film to Mission Impossible 6. Sure, that film had its issues including the script boxing itself into a corner by leaving only one serious option as to who the main villain was but the contrast was stark in other areas, namely the action set pieces.

Sure, most people couldn't (and shouldn't!) try to exactly replicate that (it's very dangerous, ask Tom Cruise's ankle) but even looking back to films like Aliens and Predator (among a legion of others) show that having actual physical backdrops and props gives things a weight that is increasingly lacking in these CGI-fests, the green screening and whatnot are increasingly dropping in quality almost as if they couldn't be bothered trying. I hope they're not falling into the trap that Star Wars did of thinking we'll go to see anything with a Star Wars label slapped on it (spoiler: people increasingly aren't).

As for the script, people are increasingly pointing out the gaping flaws, lack of substance and perhaps the most damning, perceived lack of effort. Marvel knows it's got a villain problem and it seems to have regressed further with this. Main Russian had virtually no substance (or screen time to build any) and you'd think someone should have learned something from the Wolverine Origins take on Deadpool but no, let's double down on that but at least mouth sewn up Wade Wilson had a decent length fight scene - Taskmaster barely did any taskmastering! I mean why even bother making this character Taskmaster?

Probably the biggest problems involved the Black Widow Academy, as already said, a lot of people are at least dimly aware that people taken at such a young age are indoctrinated by methods we've been using in some form or another for at least centuries, so this red macguffin dust instantly deleted what would have been all they knew from just a few years old as especially unlikely at best. Then of course there's Rachel Weisz running and being complicit in this right up to when she wasn't and giving Black Widow an out for the most terrible thing we know she's done (oh look, that guy's daughter is not actually dead - not that she seemed particularly bothered by it in the first place).

No costs, no stakes, no consequences of note, all the good guys and all but one brainwashed assassin and one former assassin killed (the latter in the most family friendly disembowelling ever!) and everything just disappearing in a haze of CGI miasma that's even less well rendered than what we've gotten in the past. I feared the rot was starting to set in with the end of Endgame but like the end of this film, things seem to be entering free fall now. If they don't pull up soon, it's be too late to stop hitting terminal velocity on the way down!
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I honestly believe that FX craftsmanship is actually getting worse on seemingly a yearly basis.

There's something very wrong with the film industry when movies made in the mid-to-late 90s and 00s look better, and often significantly better, than films made in the past decade despite the latter often having higher budgets (even when adjusted for inflation).

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I do believe at least some of it probably has to do with VFX studios increasingly being overworked and underpaid by the studios to the point where (if I remember correctly), the one that did the effects for Life of Pi won awards (possibly even an Academy Award?) and then folded - possibly even before they were announced as winners.
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Look at these snobs.
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(07-15-2021, 08:06 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: Hugo Drax > Ray Winstone.

Belloq gets it.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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Yes, rhythm&hues went bankrupt while also winning an Oscar for life of pi
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(07-15-2021, 10:10 PM)bradito Wrote: Look at these snobs.

I liked this movie. These snobs are stinking the joint up.
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I liked the moobie!

the amount of superhuman punishment she took was still funny
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I liked the movie, and I also think there are bad decisions in it.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Did they touch on anything like a supersoldier serum type deal in the movie?  I know in the comics Natasha is "enhanced" in SOME capacity, but they've never laid anything out in the movies.

I've always found the griping about Widow and Hawkguy silly.  She's CLEARLY not just a normal human woman, and he's at the very least a low-level mutant.
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as far as I’m aware, both she and Hawkeye are maintained as being normal humans

normal for sci-fi fantasy action movies, that is
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My assumption has always been that they're un-enhanced.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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In the comics widow definitely has a low level healing factor. Nothing like wolverine but described as 5 or 6 times faster than a normal person. Daredevil levels.

EDIT: 
Her fighting skills are augmented by a variant of the Super-Soldier serum, which she was given as part of the Black Widow program. Although this treatment doesn’t give her superhuman strength like Captain America, Natasha operates at peak human condition. The serum also grants her an improved immune system and enhanced durability, which explains why she has barely aged over the years, retaining her youthful appearance.

So, yes. In the comics she’s on essentially a much more powerful variation of steroids that doesn’t just augment strength but also apparently reflexes, intelligence, memory capacity etc. I’ve always interpreted this peak human as she can bench about what the strongest worlds strongest man competitors in our reality can bench, but not past what is plausibly possible. 
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So many problems with Hawkeye and Black Widow could have been fixed if there had been a 90 second scene where they get an experimental "super soldier booster shot" before the NY battle in Avengers Assemble.

"Super Soldier Booster Shot?  This will make us like Steve?"

"No, nothing nearly that dramatic. We were never able to replicate Dr. Erskine formula, but this ... *taps scary looking case filled with syringes* ... will give you a little boost."

"Any side effects?" 

"Not if you don't plan on having any more kids."

"I'm in."

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That’s so dumb. Why can’t you just assume that’s the case? Especially when the comics already support it.
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I just assume they’re as good as Batman and never think about it ever again.
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Right. That works too. Where this sudden urge from the boards to justify these characters is coming from I have no idea. Maybe because the Widow movie toys with a grounded Jason Bourne tone before going full Moonraker.
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(07-15-2021, 09:53 PM)Overlord Wrote: I honestly believe that FX craftsmanship is actually getting worse on seemingly a yearly basis.  

There's something very wrong with the film industry when movies made in the mid-to-late 90s and 00s look better, and often significantly better, than films made in the past decade despite the latter often having higher budgets (even when adjusted for inflation).

I took a 3D animation class years ago, and I was very surprised by two things. One is nobody but me had any kind of traditional art background. Now you don't exactly need one I guess, but I was still surprised how many people in there just couldn't draw; they weren't coming at it from the art side of things, they were coming from the computer tech side of things. The other was, and maybe the drawing thing helped here, but almost none of them could tell the difference between real light and reflections interesting with a real object and fake lighting and reflections playing off a very nice looking 3D model. I wouldn't be surprised if tha's kind of happening with movies too. When they started doing CGI stuff in movies they were bring in people with practical FX backgrounds to make stuff look better and move better, but today you might have people that have no experience and don't even really care about practical FX getting into the business.

But some of that stuff is also time. Like the CGI in that 2010s The Thing prequel or whatever looks terrible, but that was also a last minute decision to redo everything from some dipshit producer. Although given how far in advance some of these things are planned now, I'm a little surprised time would still figure in. Like I like this movie, but there's some fucking dodgy car shit happening in this. That crash when Black Widow fights Taskmaster is like the 2021 version of that car crash from Along Came a Spider. The car looks better than that movie, but the crash looks the same level of bad; like it looks so bad that if the director said they did that intentionally in reference to Along Came a Spider as a kind of joke I'd believe it...maybe.

The shitty thing is models were getting so fucking good looking. It's like right when they started looking their best major movies just stopped using them as much.

Been watching stuff on this channel on and off in like last year:



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