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The Winds of Winter
Just hate the game...OF THRONES?!?

My work here is done.

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(03-26-2021, 11:26 PM)doc happenin Wrote: Just hate the game...OF THRONES?!?

My work here is done.

[Image: giphy.gif]
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Help us, Brandon Sanderson. You're our only hope!

To add: he's not, the styles don't work. But, maybe think about handing it over before the (very precedented occurs) and someone else finishes it anyways.

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Dickson's suggestion of Joe Abercrombie is a good one.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Ooh, right. Just started The Blade Itself. I can see him finishing ASoIaF, can draw right bastards plenty fine.

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Finished The First Law trilogy just now. Great, violent stuff. Such an epic take-down of fantasy tropes that yes, Abercrombie should absolutely take over when - WHEN - ol Georgie shuffles off this mortal coil having never finished anything else.

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It's ridiculous that Abercrombie's Best Served Cold hasn't been turned into a movie or miniseries yet. Helluva book.
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[Image: image0-8.jpg?width=353&height=572]

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Well played.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I had been waiting a while for the next one!

Speaking of fantasy trilogies that aren't getting done. What is the status on the Kingkiller finale? Yes, I know I can and will google it; more for discussion is all.

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It's basically in the same state as TWOW. Only instead of buying trains, Rothfuss has been playing D&D.

I really enjoyed NAME OF THE WIND, despite very little actually happening. But WISE MAN'S FEAR killed my interest in the series. Dude is so in love with the world he built he forgot to tell an actual story.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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While you dopes are waiting for your favorite sword operas to continue Terry F'N Brooks concluded the Shannara series LAST YEAR.

Is he best writer? Hardly but he's decent. But the man was a workhorse putting those books out on a fairly consistent basis since 1977. I got hooked on Shannara as a teenager in the late 1980s and always dug the whole post apocalyptic Earth angle. I really should finish the series someday.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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There are apparently sixteen Shannara books I have not read.

Sixteen. And I thought the series was beaten into the ground by the time we get to Talismans of Shannara!

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Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar cycle is right there with Shannara as '80s touchstones that have kept chugging along well into the new century and which I stopped keeping up with decades ago. Impressive though that both have averaged about a book a year over all this time.
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Impressive in terms of work ethic and ability to sustain fan interest, for sure.

Not so impressive in terms of quality of writing. I recently reread the HERITAGE OF SHANNARA series and it peaks early and just rambles downhill from there.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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It's almost like demanding a certain pace of output from an author can be detrimental to the quality of that output.
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And/or the writers capable of churning out content are able to do so partially because they're not as concerned with craft.

Two or three years seems pretty reasonable in terms of a wait between epic fantasy bricks. Four to five on the outside.

Ten years and counting? Pretty ridiculous.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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When I talk about being burnt out on reading "unfinished series," I'm not just talking about guys like GRRM (or gals like Melanie Rawn ... or a host of other folks) who seem to simply abandon series-in-progress, I'm also talking about authors who refuse to let narratives reach a natural conclusion and then mercifully end.

Brooks, Feist, Rosenberg, Aspirin, Kerr, Duncan ... I could probably rattle off another 10-20 names if I just went and perused my bookshelves ... the number of authors who keep plodding away due to either financial considerations or creative waffling is just exhausting.

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The thing that drew me to Brandon Sanderson in the first place was that Elantris didn't have "BOOK ONE OF THE UBERDUDES SAGA" plastered all over it.  It was self-contained, and sadly, that made it really stand out on the fantasy shelf.
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(07-22-2021, 03:37 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: The thing that drew me to Brandon Sanderson in the first place was that Elantris didn't have "BOOK ONE OF THE UBERDUDES SAGA" plastered all over it.  It was self-contained, and sadly, that made it really stand out on the fantasy shelf.

I really liked Elantris (though it introduced me to Sanderson's brand of Mormon apologetics, an issue that seems to infect almost all of his non WOT and non Book-One-of-Mistborn works), and YES, absolutely the fact that Elantris was a standalone narrative drew me to it. In fact, it was the first Sanderson novel I read.  

I still read fantasy and sci fi novels regularly, but I can't remember the last time I picked up "Book One of the Saga of Maybe-I'll-Finish-One-Day."  I've actually been pushed to works from the 60s-80s cause it frees me from that misery.  

**For those of you who have not yet read the Waterborn duology, check it out.

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I'm 3/4s of the way through Best Served Cold and if any fantasy book needs to be adapted into a limited series prestige show, it's this.

ETA: yes, I know it's the Winds of Winter thread, but, well...

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I should give Abercrombie another chance. I tried reading his first breakout book more than 10 years ago and it didn't hook me.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(08-04-2021, 10:45 AM)MichaelM Wrote: I should give Abercrombie another chance. I tried reading his first breakout book more than 10 years ago and it didn't hook me.

I've read the first 50-75 pages of the Blade Itself two or three times.  Just not sure why it isn't grabbing me.

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I'm two thirds through my 3rd attempt at reading Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson (Malazan #1). It's compelling and entertaining, and full of amazing ideas, but my God, I'm having to constantly check with chapter summaries online to keep track of most of what's going on, who knows what, why a hinted at bit of world-building history is suddenly massively important, etc.

It reads like the fifth or sixth book in a series, not the first - and that's full of good things (a complex, very deep world and environment and characters with a lot of history) and bad things (the aforementioned crash of information).

 

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Oh, yeah. That's another book that was hailed as an instant masterpiece/gamechanger that I made multiple attempts to read and never got more than 50 or so pages into.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Judging by the last few pages, do we think there's value in starting a general fantasy literature thread so we stop cluttering up this thread with topic drift?
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(08-06-2021, 03:30 AM)rexbanner Wrote: I'm two thirds through my 3rd attempt at reading Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson (Malazan #1). It's compelling and entertaining, and full of amazing ideas, but my God, I'm having to constantly check with chapter summaries online to keep track of most of what's going on, who knows what, why a hinted at bit of world-building history is suddenly massively important, etc.

It reads like the fifth or sixth book in a series, not the first - and that's full of good things (a complex, very deep world and environment and characters with a lot of history) and bad things (the aforementioned crash of information).

Gardens of the Moon has to be one of the most head-scratchingly oft-recommended fantasy novels I have ever seen.  Halfway through the first book I had to go online to find out if it was just me, or if the author expected us to have any fucking idea of who these people are, what is going on, or just about anything.  The general consensus seemed to be that until you were multi volumes into the series nothing would really make sense.

So I stopped reading.  The prose was okay, if a bit "high fantasy overly done," but I wasn't invested in anything that was going on because I had zero context for anything.  If there hadn't been a pretty awesome magic battle in an early chapter I probably would have quit much earlier.

**It really doesn't help that the Malazan series has a fanbase that ... I need to stay politically correct here ... "think quite differently" as to whether it's a negative or a positive for a writer to conceal important contextual information until later volumes, intentionally obscure or camouflage plot points, fail to describe who is speaking or provide the appearance of characters, not set any context for conversations or sequences, or follow conventional story structure. It's the same type of fanbase who believe that From Software has great game design.

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I just read a chapter that concluded on a note that I think was meant to play as a dramatic revelation of a supporting character's motives, but for it to do that I'd've needed to understand and then remember the ins and outs of said strange-fantasy-named characters' race's millennia-spanning history.

The good stuff is really good - the opening setpiece with some god setting his hell hounds on a few miles of coastline to cover the fact that he'd possessed one villager; the opening magical battle between an army and a moon in which one guy gets blown in half before managing to place his soul in a puppet; and the various backstabbing factions - but it seems deliberately obtuse.

Spending multiple pages describing a mage interpreting that world's version of Tarot cards as a means of prophesysing her way through incomprehensible politics and a godly pantheon and expecting the reader's mind to do anything but glaze over is some writing choice.
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(08-06-2021, 09:07 AM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Judging by the last few pages, do we think there's value in starting a general fantasy literature thread so we stop cluttering up this thread with topic drift?

I think there's value in it but I also think that, just like the kitchen often ends up being the room where people end up congregating and talking, even though the living room is RIGHT THERE WITH ALL THOSE COMFY SEATS, it may or may not get much activity.

Give it a shot and see?
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Actually, we've already got a sort of fantasy catch-all thread here:

http://citizens.trouble.city/showthread.php?tid=114670
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And this kitchen is richly adorned and all the food is here. We're guests, waiting for the host to arrive - even though it's been like...7 years? Still, a nice spread.

We can talk about the new theater show Martin is developing!

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(08-07-2021, 08:51 AM)doc happenin Wrote: And this kitchen is richly adorned and all the food is here. We're guests, waiting for the host to arrive - even though it's been like...7 years? Still, a nice spread.

We can talk about the new theater show Martin is developing!

A Dance With Dragons came out 10 years ago this July. I actually feel really sorry for the guy - it must be frustrating as fuck having to hammer out an extraordinarily complicated book that, quite understandably, his heart is probably not totally in now. He's been living with these characters in his head for 30 years, so the fun of exploring them and that world is probably long gone. 

Plus, the stress that comes from knowing that *if* he finishes it before he pops his clogs, the remaining years of his life are going to spent working on a difficult task rather than just basking in a completed opus that he can drop short stories from if the fancy takes him. 

Looking up that date, it is an incredible achievement that less than 2 years passed between A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords coming out. The first three ASOIAF books are extraordinarily entertaining reads - Martin must have been really enjoying himself as he wrote them too. I've long thought that Martin's 'I'll throw in this awesome idea' approach is one of the series's key strengths, but also something that's probably extremely difficult to pull together. It's one of the reasons I've always been pretty easy on the crummier aspects of the last few seasons of the show - the size of the story will make it fucking difficult to end elegantly.

And the show did away with Aegon, the pandemic in Mereen, the heaps of apocalpytic and Lovecraftian prophecies surrounding Euron, Lady Stoneheart, the intrigue at the Citadel, and the ins-and-outs of whatever Littlefinger and Sansa are getting up to in the Vale, and the Dornish's plans for Myrcella, as well as a tonne of other things I'm probably forgetting.

Did we ever find out who the serial killer in Winterfell was? That was a fantastic plotline that I wish had been retained in the series. It's totally forgiveable given the logistics, but the books did a hell of a lot better with the oppressiveness and threat of winter and the cold a lot better than the show did. Roose Bolton's resentful allies being snowed in in Winterfell as a killer stalks the castle and Theon rediscovers himself was some of the best writing in the series.
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(08-07-2021, 10:02 AM)rexbanner Wrote: I've long thought that Martin's 'I'll throw in this awesome idea' approach is one of the series's key strengths, but also something that's probably extremely difficult to pull together. It's one of the reasons I've always been pretty easy on the crummier aspects of the last few seasons of the show - the size of the story will make it fucking difficult to end elegantly.

His "gardening" approach is fine for the first half of a long series but, as we're seeing, wholly untenable for actually finishing it.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Every time you sumbitches post here without actual news about Winds of Winter's release, GRRM burns three more pages from the draft and rewrites them.
"Wilford Brimley can't be bothered to accept praise. He doesn't act because he thinks people will enjoy his work. He acts because it's his goddamned job." --Will Harris, AV Club
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(08-06-2021, 06:49 PM)rexbanner Wrote: I just read a chapter that concluded on a note that I think was meant to play as a dramatic revelation of a supporting character's motives, but for it to do that I'd've needed to understand and then remember the ins and outs of said strange-fantasy-named characters' race's millennia-spanning history.

The good stuff is really good - the opening setpiece with some god setting his hell hounds on a few miles of coastline to cover the fact that he'd possessed one villager; the opening magical battle between an army and a moon in which one guy gets blown in half before managing to place his soul in a puppet; and the various backstabbing factions - but it seems deliberately obtuse.

Spending multiple pages describing a mage interpreting that world's version of Tarot cards as a means of prophesysing her way through incomprehensible politics and a godly pantheon and expecting the reader's mind to do anything but glaze over is some writing choice.

Malazan is very difficult to both read and recommend.  I loved most of the series even though I hardly understood what was going on but I hit a point in the final book where I just stopped reading.  I couldn't go on and it's been so long that I can't just pick it up, I'd have to start it all over again and I just don't have the will to do it.
I think these screen captures and giant (Dildi? Is there a plural?) are just the next step in the JJ Abrams online adventure series. Very slyly played, Bitches Leave.-Tom Fuchs
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