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The All Purpose NEW RELEASES THAT AREN'T WORTH A DEDICATED THREAD Thread
From my standpoint, a suicide makes the story more tragic, and therefore harder to enjoy on a pure entertainment level.

Having it actually be a murder gives the audience more permission to feel less bad about it and just have a good time with the ridiculousness.

(09-12-2021, 06:58 AM)Nooj Wrote: I actually didn’t find it all that ‘steamy’ in terms of the actual filmmaking. I saw a positive review describing it as a “training wheels erotic thriller” which I think that sums up why. (although I still appreciate the effort to ‘bring horny back’)

We can litigate semantics if we want, and there's an obvious element of personal taste, too (i.e. if somebody doesn't find the actresses -- or the actor! -- attractive, they're less likely to find that stuff effectively erotic).

But within the context of having to reach back nearly 20 years to find anything even close to this level of in-your-face sexuality (there more for our enjoyment than to make some other point) in an American thriller release from a mainstream company, I thought it was effectively temperature-raising.

It may be training wheels (it's true, THE VOYEURS is no BASIC INSTINCT), but after a long time out of fashion, a comeback for that style of thriller has to start somewhere.
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(09-12-2021, 11:27 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: We can litigate semantics if we want, and there's an obvious element of personal taste, too (i.e. if somebody doesn't find the actresses -- or the actor! -- attractive, they're less likely to find that stuff effectively erotic).

But within the context of having to reach back nearly 20 years to find anything even close to this level of in-your-face sexuality (there more for our enjoyment than to make some other point) in an American thriller release from a mainstream company, I thought it was effectively temperature-raising.

I mean, the 50 SHADES OF GREY movies (definitely mainstream) weren't THAT long ago, and those were certainly going for 'in-your-face' sexuality, even though I'd subjectively argue similarly that they were hardly 'steamy' in terms of the actual filmmaking.

And in both cases, the leads are all CERTAINLY very photogenic/attractive (almost too perfectly so).  So in terms of personal taste, it's less about that and more about the filmmaking specifics that evoke horniness and eroticism to me.  And in the case of strong filmmaking, I'd say that can supersede whether I find the cast 'objectively' attractive or not.  

It's certainly a slickly and professionally made film, but even in its attempts to be horny it had a sense of "going through the motions" sterility to me. (to be fair, that IS an element of the plot hahahah)
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I can't speak to 50 SHADES with any authority, having never seen it, though what I did consistently hear about it from people who did see it was that it teased more than it delivered. It's also not really a thriller, is it?

But anyway! We can agree to disagree about how well the filmmaking in THE VOYEURS hit the mark in this regard.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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The series eventually has thriller elements, but it's generally meant to be an erotic/romance/drama

I've seen the first movie and some parts of the sequels.... and while I wouldn't say it 'delivered', it wasn't just 'teasing' either. It was just REALLY tame through its sterility despite the subject matter. A friend of mine who read the first book said that while the writing was absolute garbage, it was VERY horny... and the movie couldn't get that across at all.

A big part of that is the casting. I thought Dakota Johnson was actually really good, but Jamie Dornan just came off very blank.
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I've heard Johnson acquitted herself about as well as possible, but that Dornan fellow seemed like he was engineered in a lab to be a generic non-entity (based purely on trailers and posters).
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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pretty much!
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He gets to live a little in BARB AND STAR from earlier this year. Weirdly, the best part of the movie!

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(09-12-2021, 11:27 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: From my standpoint, a suicide makes the story more tragic, and therefore harder to enjoy on a pure entertainment level.

Having it actually be a murder gives the audience more permission to feel less bad about it and just have a good time with the ridiculousness.  

you may hate that I bring this up, but I found the death hard to 'enjoy' either way because you run into the image of a young black man being hanged in his own home (by his own hand or an evil dragon-lady) in a movie that uses him like a plot-piece to be completely emasculated over a terrible terrible white woman

and that may be why I would prefer the more abrupt ending with her being utterly destroyed by this weird 'evil couple' that have a supernatural ability to manipulate their prey


(09-12-2021, 03:44 PM)doc happenin Wrote: He gets to live a little in BARB AND STAR from earlier this year. Weirdly, the best part of the movie!

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've heard he's great!
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(09-12-2021, 03:44 PM)Nooj Wrote:
(09-12-2021, 11:27 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: From my standpoint, a suicide makes the story more tragic, and therefore harder to enjoy on a pure entertainment level.

Having it actually be a murder gives the audience more permission to feel less bad about it and just have a good time with the ridiculousness.  

you may hate that I bring this up, but I found the death hard to 'enjoy' either way because you run into the image of a young black man being hanged in his own home (by his own hand or an evil dragon-lady) in a movie that uses him like a plot-piece to be completely emasculated over a terrible terrible white woman

and that may be why I would prefer the more abrupt ending with her being utterly destroyed by this weird 'evil couple' that have a supernatural ability to manipulate their prey
Two points.
1. Ain't nothing terrible about them titties.
2.I kind of love your response because im certain they were patting themselves on the back about the diversity in the film.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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(09-12-2021, 03:27 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I've heard Johnson acquitted herself about as well as possible, but that Dornan fellow seemed like he was engineered in a lab to be a generic non-entity (based purely on trailers and posters).

It's been pretty public as well that Dornan and Johnson didn't get along, and Dornan in particular viewed the movies as trash.

I've seen chunks of the first film and they just have zero chemistry, which is a HUGE part of any film or show in which we're supposed to get on board the horny train with the characters in question.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(09-12-2021, 03:44 PM)Nooj Wrote: you may hate that I bring this up, but I found the death hard to 'enjoy' either way because you run into the image of a young black man being hanged in his own home (by his own hand or an evil dragon-lady) in a movie that uses him like a plot-piece to be completely emasculated over a terrible terrible white woman

and that may be why I would prefer the more abrupt ending with her being utterly destroyed by this weird 'evil couple' that have a supernatural ability to manipulate their prey

No, I don't hate it. If a person reads the movie that way, I can't fault them. In what will, I'm sure, not be a surprise to you, I generally don't engage with movies in that way unless I'm being made to by the inherent conceit of the film (i.e. is the movie intentionally inviting this?), but I don't fault others if that's what they're genuinely taking away in good faith.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(09-12-2021, 04:22 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:  .....I generally don't engage with movies in that way unless I'm being made to by the inherent conceit of the film (i.e. is the movie intentionally inviting this?)....


Back in 2012, I went to a screening of HIT & RUN (a 2012 film that Dax Shepard wrote, directed, and co-starred with Kristen Bell and Bradley Cooper)

I remember ABSOLUTELY nothing about the movie except this scene:





And I've always been VERY curious as to how much Dax Shepard was aware of the loaded imagery he was engaging in for a movie that I felt was otherwise complete sub-Tarantino fluff

edit: I'm trying to think back to my own reaction to a scene I found completely tasteless in the scheme of the rest of the movie (which was generally going for outrageously bad behavior).... but this movie came out in August of 2012.  The death of Travon Martin was in February of that year.  I imagine the scene would've stuck out to me already, but in the context of the ongoing cultural divide/discourse surrounding Travon Martin's death, I was probably a lot more cognizant of this kind of 'representation' in media.  

I can't be certain without rewatching the film (and I'm not going to), but I'm pretty sure this scene is the only part of the movie that features a black cast member at all.

Apparently, Shepard has expressed some regret over the scene on his podcast. (according to some reddit threads I looked up about it).  He DEFINITELY wouldn't do such a scene now!
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I'm going to take your word for it that whatever happens in that scene is in bad taste!
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Bad Dax! Bad Dax! You go outside! Bad Dax!

You’re a bad Dax!
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(09-12-2021, 04:40 PM)Nooj Wrote:
(09-12-2021, 04:22 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:  .....I generally don't engage with movies in that way unless I'm being made to by the inherent conceit of the film (i.e. is the movie intentionally inviting this?)....


Back in 2012, I went to a screening of HIT & RUN (a 2012 film that Dax Shepard wrote, directed, and co-starred with Kristen Bell and Bradley Cooper)

I remember ABSOLUTELY nothing about the movie except this scene:





And I've always been VERY curious as to how much Dax Shepard was aware of the loaded imagery he was engaging in for a movie that I felt was otherwise complete sub-Tarantino fluff

edit: I'm trying to think back to my own reaction to a scene I found completely tasteless in the scheme of the rest of the movie (which was generally going for outrageously bad behavior).... but this movie came out in August of 2012.  The death of Travon Martin was in February of that year.  I imagine the scene would've stuck out to me already, but in the context of the ongoing cultural divide/discourse surrounding Travon Martin's death, I was probably a lot more cognizant of this kind of 'representation' in media.  

I can't be certain without rewatching the film (and I'm not going to), but I'm pretty sure this scene is the only part of the movie that features a black cast member at all.

Apparently, Shepard has expressed some regret over the scene on his podcast. (according to some reddit threads I looked up about it).  He DEFINITELY wouldn't do such a scene now!

Yeah the leash part specifically......was a choice. But everyone's version of what racist imagery is going to be maddening for sure. Because while I think being aware is good I also think it leads to a paranoia about "can we have a POC do this" which ultimately could be limiting to the actor and the film. Although certainly not in the case of Hit and Run.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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aye, that's the fine tricky line that creatives are walking!

Because in regards to the casting of Justice Smith, I was thinking about the baggage that would come if he'd been cast as the photographer instead.

Or you think about the fact that he's mixed with lighter skin and the way lighter skinned black men (and women) are portrayed in media.

There's some form of minefield any way you go, so I wouldn't argue that Justice Smith should not have been cast in this. Not at all. But in terms of having a plot that very specifically emasculates him as the lead's sexual/romantic partner, capping it off with him getting hung is a choice!
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In fairness, he is avenged through poetic justice!

But I get what you're saying.

I also agree that either way -- going with a diverse cast or an all-white cast -- there's probably going to be something somebody could find off-putting in any of those configurations if this script stays the way it is.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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currently reading this piece:

https://longreads.com/2019/05/24/the-ero...tle-death/

Quote:Then the genre died; it’s fitting that the man who brought the erotic thriller to climax with Basic Instinct also killed it with Showgirls. Director Paul Verhoeven had the chance to earn the NC-17 rating designed to bolster now well-established adult fare, but he failed and the erotic thriller became a studio risk. Perhaps this was enough to kill it, considering Hollywood’s increasing need to make bank, but it was buried for good by a political landscape that reinforced America’s growing puritanism, an industry saturated with cheap knockoffs like Fair Game (starring supermodel Cindy Crawford), and the rise of free online porn and graphic auteur cinema.

But it was only a little death. The specter of Beyoncé floats over a new form of mainstream erotic thriller, one which has been scrubbed for its debut. In 2009, Queen B reintroduced us to blockbuster eroticism with Obsessed, which was dubbed “the black Fatal Attraction” — a married man is terrorized by a woman at his office — but had none of its predecessor’s charm. Producer Will Packer is famous for his aspirational black rom-coms (This Christmas, Think Like a Man), and Obsessed shared the same generic aesthetic. The specificity of the best erotic thrillers was thus replaced by an all-encompassing generality — suburban-style wealth with interchangeable houses, offices, clothes, people, even storylines. 
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I reject the notion that SHOWGIRLS is a "thriller" of any sort (though its gargantuan failure absolutely played into the phasing out of that kind of "in your face" sexual content in big American releases).

But that's an intriguing piece; I don't believe I agree with all the observations or characterizations, but lots of proverbial food for thought.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Is Obsessed an Erotic Thriller? It's a PG-13 movie. It's not a movie I've seen, but I'd imagine a 2009 PG-13 movie isn't exactly engaging in the erotic side of things, definitely not to the level of, say, Chole from the exact same year. Showgirls as some kind of end to the Erotic Thriller also seems like a weird point to try and make given it'll be followed by movies like Wild Things, Fear, Eyes Wide Shut, and Pail Verhoeven's own Hollow Man movie which has sex as a large part of it.

That also makes it sound like Fair Game was released long after Showgirls, when it came out the exact same year. As a side note, I haven't seen Fair Game since the days of it first playing on HBO, but I didn't realize (or at least I totally forgot) it was based on the same book Cobra was based on. I wouldn't exactly say free internet porn was on the rise in '95 either, that's more of a 2000s thing when Kazaa comes around. Like you could get some pictures, (and that might take a bit, and it might fuck up in the process and the final result is half a picture) and maybe you might find a clip, but like I had friends that had internet in their room back then and softcore Cinemax porn was still the way to watch a porno in the '90s for free.
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oh man, I forgot about CHLOE!!! hahaha
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Chloe is underrated.
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CHLOE takes itself way too seriously for my taste.

(09-12-2021, 09:08 PM)simbob Wrote: Wild Things, Fear, Eyes Wide Shut, and Pail Verhoeven's own Hollow Man movie which has sex as a large part of it.

WILD THINGS I think certainly qualifies as a proper erotic thriller.  FEAR is very tame.  HOLLOW MAN has a couple of kinky bits (read: sexual assault of various types!), but that stuff never feels like the movie's reason for existence, nor are those moments particularly exciting (given the aforementioned context).

I don't find EYES WIDE SHUT erotic at all... but that seems to be the point.  We shouldn't find what's going on in that movie to be terribly alluring, because the entire point is that when Cruise finally confronts these scenarios he might have fantasized about, they're (at best) strange or (at worst) outright sinister and dangerous.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Watched THE PROTEGE with Maggie Q, Samuel L. Jackson, and an awesome Michael Keaton.

Pretty good. The action in the film is very well done but there's not enough of it to satisfy. Every action scene in the film ends right when it's starting to find a groove, giving you a perpetual feeling of 'is that it?'

Insufficient action aside, the acting in it is really solid from everyone. Keaton, in particular, looks like he's having a lot of fun here with his perfectly snarky attitude given time to shine. The production design is also very nice and exotic, making good use of the location shooting in Vietnam. The plot is pretty generic and you won't have any surprises along the way but it's well told under Martin Campbell's direction.
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I've got that one on my list to check out, but with it being horror movie season, it will probably have to wait until November!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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just saw COPSHOP

really solid crime thriller! fun cast, good quips, good setups and payoffs.

see it in theaters if you can!
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A coworker was telling me about that one this morning, said it was fun.
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Someone else can make a post-Many Saints thread, but after watching it I just feel like it petered out. Died on the vine
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Yeah, they botched it. Plain and simple.

[Image: 0b847896-99a8-4f7d-992e-a35c2faad0c9_text.gif]
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Yeah, caught it last night as well (I think everyone did, as HBOMax kept cutting out on us for a bit). Firstly, those expecting Tony Soprano Begins will be upset - it ain't really about him. Second, it doesn't tell you anything you don't really already know from watching the Sopranos. Buncha swinging dicks swinging their dicks around, killing people in fits of rage and not adding anything new to the conversation the show spent years having. Is it fun to be back in the world? Of course. There's fan service galore; look at young Silvio! Look at Pussy! Satriale's hasn't changed a bit, has it! Ultimately, it was superfluous, unnecessary and also...lifeless. It felt like the fifth level of 'mobster' movie, trickling down from the way things actually are to the made-up-ness of the The Godfather to Goodfellas to the Sopranos and now to this, a movie playing a part of a show playing a part of a movie, playing a part of another movie trying to be like life.
Michael Gandolfini was good. I hope he can get more work; yet at the same time, motherfucking nepotism. Christ.

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(10-02-2021, 07:49 AM)doc happenin Wrote: Second, it doesn't tell you anything you don't really already know from watching the Sopranos.

No spoilers, but there is a reveal towards the end of the film about a "legacy" character that was never indicated on the show. But it's handled so sloppy in this movie that there isn't near the impact that they were aiming for.
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(10-02-2021, 07:49 AM)doc happenin Wrote: Firstly, those expecting Tony Soprano Begins will be upset - it ain't really about him. 

I enjoyed it more than you did, but the film is kinda schizophrenic -- it spends so much time saying that it is indeed NOT Tony Soprano Begins, but the final scene and narration turn around and say "AND SO TONY SOPRANO BEGINS!"

Pop Culture Happy Hour said this might have played better as a limited series, with more time to breathe and where a more episodic, novelistic approach would go down better, and I kinda agree.
Just this guy, you know?
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Despite one hair gag, young Silvio was horrid.
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Nepotism never really entered my mind in this case. He looks so much like his dad that this casting seems like the obvious thing to do..

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MANY SAINTS felt like a series of highlights from a good season of television. It's so all over the place and tries to be so many things that it doesn't really ending up doing anything, even though I liked it scene by scene.

Frankly, the closing pinkie swear / theme song needle drop made me laugh.
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