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Ideas For Future Drafts
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Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

First of all, I am not advocating reruns.  I'd love to draft from an earlier era.  It's just that anytime I (or someone else) has ever mentioned the idea, there seemed to be very little interest.

Second, as I've said, drafts get dull if you do a ton of them.  And drafting movies is way more interesting than drafting characters or scores or stuff like that.

And finally, I've already argued why I think using decades is a better system than genres.  I simply don't like all the quibbling over if something qualifies, or is in the "spirit" of the draft.  Just my opinion.

The quibbling seems pretty essential to me, but I've only done the one draft.

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Agreed with Schwartz: the quibbling is the heart and soul of the discussion, otherwise it just becomes a litany of  'Me Too!' or 'Fuck You!' exclamations.  You need to have some controversy in there.  And some DREAMCATCHER, apparently.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

The quibbling seems pretty essential to me, but I've only done the one draft.

It's essential to a genre draft, and it's an interesting discussion in and of itself, but to me it adds an unnecessary pain in the ass.  Invariably the definition of the genre will have to be more generous than some would like, or you risk souring others on what is supposed to be a fun process of trying to put together a roster of films they like.  But, again, that's my personal preference.  I'd rather talk about the films, and in place of the talk of how they work within the genre there's the less potentially divisive topic of how they work within the era they were made.  There's also much greater variety, so people can go in another direction more easily if their initial theme gets messed up.

ETA- Just to make sure I don't come across too negative, I still had a great time with this draft, and Arjen did an awesome job putting it together.

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As I recall, one of the better discussions took place in the Failure draft when Fat Elvis drafted THE INCREDIBLES.  It reminds me of how Patrick consistently knocked it out of the park during our current draft regarding DR. STRANGELOVE.  Those discussions are great, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the outcome.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

It's essential to a genre draft, and it's an interesting discussion in and of itself, but to me it adds an unnecessary pain in the ass.  Invariably the definition of the genre will have to be more generous than some would like, or you risk souring others on what is supposed to be a fun process of trying to put together a roster of films they like.  But, again, that's my personal preference.  I'd rather talk about the films, and in place of the talk of how they work within the genre there's the less potentially divisive topic of how they work within the era they were made.  There's also much greater variety, so people can go in another direction more easily if their initial theme gets messed up.

I guess I see that as a liability; it's so expansive that it saps the competitive spirit (I'd expect).  With no controversy as to what qualifies and a wide enough variety to patch up any theme on the fly, it would seem more likely to just become a list of good movies with posts that say "Oh, good movie!"

Evidently that doesn't actually happen, though, as the existence of 5 decade drafts attests.  But their existence is my main argument against it anyway.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

As I recall, one of the better discussions took place in the Failure draft when Fat Elvis drafted THE INCREDIBLES.  It reminds me of how Patrick consistently knocked it out of the park during our current draft regarding DR. STRANGELOVE.  Those discussions are great, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the outcome.

Yes, they're great discussions.  I acknowledged that.  But within the context of a draft?  If you disqualify someone's title, it pisses them off.  So then you have to say something like "if you can live with it, then go ahead and pick it."  So you have a SciFi draft with stuff that not everyone agrees is SciFi.  In terms of discussion, it's fine.  In terms of "the game", it's not an even playing field.  And there are other interesting discussions to be had in a decade draft... namely the decade itself.  How a film relates within the context of an era.  That's really interesting stuff too.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

And some DREAMCATCHER, apparently.

Or better yet, some Detention.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

I guess I see that as a liability; it's so expansive that it saps the competitive spirit (I'd expect).  With no controversy as to what qualifies and a wide enough variety to patch up any theme on the fly, it would seem more likely to just become a list of good movies with posts that say "Oh, good movie!"

Evidently that doesn't actually happen, though, as the existence of 5 decade drafts attests.  But their existence is my main argument against it anyway.

Believe me, not everyone agrees on what's a good movie in these things!

*cough* Batman Begins in the first round *cough*

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To me, jumping right into the 70s draft feels like skipping to dessert right from the appetizer. The first draft in a while was a success, bringing people out of the woodwork, why not build towards the 70s?

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I'm there for whatever, ET.  Was just trying to guarantee broad participation, because when a draft doesn't come together it seems like there's an extra two or three month wait until someone tries again.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

If you disqualify someone's title, it pisses them off.  So then you have to say something like "if you can live with it, then go ahead and pick it."  So you have a SciFi draft with stuff that not everyone agrees is SciFi.  In terms of discussion, it's fine.  In terms of "the game", it's not an even playing field. 

Sure it's not an even playing field, but they did it to themselves.  If someone wants to waste one of the five prime picks they have on something that doesn't even fit the genre, they've both hurt themselves AND left something on the table for someone else.  Naturally you don't want someone's draft list to consist entirely of non-SF films, but didn't anybody even come close to that?  Even the borderline cases had spirited defenses in their favor that made sense and didn't dampen the spirit of the thing.

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The issue has probably already been discussed (by me at least) far more than it needs to.  Like I said, it's my preference.  I only elaborated because the point was made that perhaps the arguing over genre is essential to the draft, and I was saying it's not.  There are plenty of other interesting things to talk about and debate within a different set of parameters.

I find the decade drafts are more wide open in terms of what you can do with them, and that's even within a set of parameters that is more rigidly defined.  To me that's the best of both worlds.  But if y'all do a Western draft or something, I'll be there just the same.

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Someone's always gonna get smashed in these though. Ghostbusters 2, for example (can you believe it? Over the original? What the fuck was that about, seriously?)

Or we could look at the Strangelove thing. Bailey, you're fucking great. Everyone here knows it. But Strangelove as SciFi, in the first round? Bit of a duff pick. There's no winner for these, at all, so part of the game for me is how you roll with the flow of the thing. In your case, I would say you recovered nicely, and even if Ripoll won that particular debate (again, to my mind), you certainly made a spirited defense. You're too good at these to draft a bad movie in a decade draft, but a great movie that maybe doesn't explore the idea of science fiction in an interesting way? Sure, and that can keep us on our toes. In the spirit of competition!

This was easily the best conversation I've had online about science fiction movies ever. Really got me considering what that genre, and in fact 'genre', means for me. And what I consider makes something science fiction. Decade lists are different, they make you think about history and how movies are defined by when they're released. For me, the key component of any draft is that it's about something beyond your five favorites. A list of favorite movies sucks anyway. Mine changes immensely every time I make one.

As Bailey says, I'm up for anything (in September? That's kind of a boring month, like April). I kind of think drafting movies is going to be way better than characters or scores, personally. It would probably be fun as hell to do Albums or Songs, but I'm nowhere near as conversant in music as in film, and I bet not many folks here are.

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Wait, I though Patrick and Johnnie Cochran admitted Strangelove was SciFi in the end!?

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AI picked the sequel cause I never thought I get the original also the movie very undeserved. the original had everything this came out was great it did a good job having them at the worst and coming back on top to me I love hearing how this bothers you but at the end of the day it my pick and so who cares a lot of picked worst in my opinion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Sure it's not an even playing field, but they did it to themselves.  If someone wants to waste one of the five prime picks they have on something that doesn't even fit the genre, they've both hurt themselves AND left something on the table for someone else.  Naturally you don't want someone's draft list to consist entirely of non-SF films, but didn't anybody even come close to that?  Even the borderline cases had spirited defenses in their favor that made sense and didn't dampen the spirit of the thing.

Yeah, the fun and challenge of the game for me came in large part from navigating the inherent tension between what makes a great single pick vs what makes for a good overall list.  Because the best single pick is the outside the box one that most people hadn't even considered, but if you get carried away with that you end up with a list that just sort of hangs around the periphery the genre.

I mean, if you end up with a list consisting of Being John Malkovich, Dr. Strangelove, Enter The Void, Night Of The Living Dead, and The Dark Knight, then you have nothing but great films, and none of them would be disqualified.  And you probably sparked some interesting discussions.  But it's a pretty poor representation of the sci-fi genre overall.

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I'm in for whatever, it was a great time.

I'd like to request that we don't do a free-for-all in the bonus round?  It went way to fast.

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AI had a great time though I really love to get to do composing scores that idea I think later would be great also it would be cool if the draft lasted longer there were many titles that just got blown in the wind and left out
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AI had a great time though I really love to get to do composing scores that idea I think later would be great also it would be cool if the draft lasted longer there were many titles that just got blown in the wind and left out
How bout a comics draft
Or movie posters
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Thanks guys, for the pages and pages of great reading.  I really enjoyed the various Bond Knockouts, earlier, as well.  I'm kicking myself that I hadn't noticed that the Sci-Fi Draft was starting as I would have loved to jump onboard that one.  I'll certainly keep my eyes open for any future ones that start up.  I'd love to see a 'War Film' Draft thrown together.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilla7 View Post

I had a great time though I really love to get to do composing scores that idea I think later would be great also it would be cool if the draft lasted longer there were many titles that just got blown in the wind and left out
How bout a comics draft
Or movie posters

I think movie drafts are much better than comic or poster drafts, due to the amount of discussion which a movie can generate. There's not a whole lot to say regarding a poster, really. Comics aren't a bad suggestion although there's an awful lot of comics out there and I'd wager that the percentage of comic-book readers here is actually quite small.

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ATrue thanks for the head ups
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Can we get a headcount on how many people are averse to drafting individual elements rather than entire films?  Because villains sounds like fun, and I think we'd get a pretty good crowd and conversation going with Action Sequences.

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I'm not opposed to it, just not really for it. Nonanswer!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

There's not a whole lot to say regarding a poster, really.

Welcome, friend.  You must be new to the internet.

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I'm up for pretty much any draftable subject.  Hell, let's do a rock band draft.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

Welcome, friend.  You must be new to the internet.

You think we'd get almost sixty pages worth of discussion over a series of posters? Really? You're an articulate guy, Bailey, but even I can't imagine how much debate you could draw out of a Star Wars poster.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

You think we'd get almost sixty pages worth of discussion over a series of posters? Really? You're an articulate guy, Bailey, but even I can't imagine how much debate you could draw out of a Star Wars poster.

"Are you crazy?  The 1981 re-release poster is SO much better than the 1978 one-year anniversary poster.  I can't believe you wasted a pick on that."

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

You think we'd get almost sixty pages worth of discussion over a series of posters? Really? You're an articulate guy, Bailey, but even I can't imagine how much debate you could draw out of a Star Wars poster.

Oh, no, I agree with you.  I was just making a joke about how we nitpick every scrap of material before a movie comes out.

To answer the question seriously, right now we've had our first taste of a draft in awhile, so all of those things sound fun to me theoretically.  But it really is important to try to avoid fatigue in the process.  (IIRC they actually instituted a moratorium on people holding drafts for awhile.)  A quick and dirty draft that took place over a few days, and was not expected to carry a two week long schedule, a couple thousand reply discussion thread, and 30 people, could definitely work for me.  But for the "big" drafts, the ones that are really kind of a (pleasurable) endurance, I definitely don't want to draft costumes or cute sidekicks.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

"Are you crazy?  The 1981 re-release poster is SO much better than the 1978 one-year anniversary poster.  I can't believe you wasted a pick on that."

I'm still failing to see how posters can yield interesting debate. Then again, I'm the type of guy who tends to avoid art galleries so maybe I'm prejudiced against this particular area of cinema.

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POWROT JEDI!

<br />

No, I will never stop doing that.

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APoster Fatality
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AAnimated Films
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A[quote name="Judas Booth" url="/community/t/147438/ideas-for-future-drafts/100#post_3497041"]Hell, let's do a rock band draft.
[/quote]

This.

The idea of casting a modern film (Avengers, say) with a 70's era cast is intriguing.

Oh, and Young Frankenstein.
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APratical Effects
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