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Fox News - this is not satire
What I was getting at is that it isn't really possible to have the reach that Rogan has without it translating to actual influence. And I really don't think that taking something seriously is a requirement for being affected by it. To use another example, I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who would say they look to Jimmy Fallon to guide their cultural, much less political, opinions. But having Trump on THE TONIGHT SHOW and tossling his hair absolutely influenced people to see him as a relatively harmless part of the normal political sphere (at a time when that was the main thing his campaign was struggling with), and that influence was probably strongest among exactly the people that were barely paying attention to any of it.
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And wasn't that within a year of Trump being invited to host SNL? I don't know how much flack Lorne Michaels gets for platforming the guy, but it probably isn't enough. I know pretty much all the networks were shamelessly in the profitable business of giving Trump as much broadcast time as possible, but continuing the historical tradition of portraying him as an amusing clown stops being harmless in 2015-2016. Fallon's individual contribution to that might be overstated, but it was certainly endemic of a complicity that pop media as a whole was tripping over itself to cash in on.
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(05-31-2021, 09:54 AM)schwartz Wrote: What I was getting at is that it isn't really possible to have the reach that Rogan has without it translating to actual influence.  And I really don't think that taking something seriously is a requirement for being affected by it.  To use another example, I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who would say they look to Jimmy Fallon to guide their cultural, much less political, opinions.  But having Trump on THE TONIGHT SHOW and tossling his hair absolutely influenced people to see him as a relatively harmless part of the normal political sphere (at a time when that was the main thing his campaign was struggling with), and that influence was probably strongest among exactly the people that were barely paying attention to any of it.

Fair call.
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This is why all late night shows and podcasts should be cancelled until we figure out what's going on.
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It was a whole bunch of things coming together that made Trump seem reasonable and even personable. It wasn't just Jimmy Fallon, but Fallon has done all he can to make up for it--though I don't think he ever entirely will. And he seems to recognize his part in all of this.

JR's whole excuse is that because he's not "being serious" or isn't a "serious political analyst" then he shouldn't have to be called out for the things he says. But the reality is, and something that a significant portion of the population are taking very poorly, is that politics is everything. It is everywhere. Anyone who claims to be apolitical is immediately sus. Because what they really mean is that they are "political" in that they hold up white, heteronormative politics that people assume to be the standard. That is a political choice and people are reckoning with it right now.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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I've definitely had some "not political" people lose their shit when I've benignly called out a certain political party (The GOP, coincidentally) for its egregiousness on more than one occasion.

Yeah, you don't like talking about politics, but it's only because your party sucks and you don't want to be reminded about it.
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(05-31-2021, 10:41 AM)fatherdude Wrote: And wasn't that within a year of Trump being invited to host SNL? I don't know how much flack Lorne Michaels gets for platforming the guy, but it probably isn't enough. I know pretty much all the networks were shamelessly in the profitable business of giving Trump as much broadcast time as possible, but continuing the historical tradition of portraying him as an amusing clown stops being harmless in 2015-2016. Fallon's individual contribution to that might be overstated, but it was certainly endemic of a complicity that pop media as a whole was tripping over itself to cash in on.

Michaels has definitely taken flack fo it, and arguably deserves more criticism than Fallon on that particular score. He was a better example of what I was talking about, though, because SNL does/has carried some sort of weight as a voice of political satire/insight/whatever.  Whereas no one has ever accused ol' Jimbo of being a thought leader.

Again, I don't want to get too specific on Rogan because my impression of him is mostly secondhand.  But it seems like he has been a big enough deal for long enough now, and consistently dabbling in controversial political and cultural material, that the "I'm just a big dumb jokey jokester" excuse doesn't really hold up.  That line was suspect from the first time Jon Stewart trotted it out to deflect criticism over the political bent of his overtly political show about politics, but it seems especially hollow to me these days.  If you are going to spend hours, week after week, discussing a topic, you are going to inevitabl develop opinions on that subject.  And continuing to use your lack of official/academic credentials as a shield to avoid having to defend those opinions starts to seem more and more cowardly.
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(05-31-2021, 02:34 PM)bradito Wrote: I've definitely had some "not political" people lose their shit when I've benignly called out a certain political party (The GOP, coincidentally) for its egregiousness on more than one occasion.

Yeah, you don't like talking about politics, but it's only because your party sucks and you don't want to be reminded about it.

What I find so interesting that those people, or "centrists who claim to not care for both sides" get big mad when you even suggest that Democrats hold the moral ground over the Republicans. Like so many go into rants about how the Democrats are shitty and terrible, and then have to begrudgingly acknowledge that the Republicans are a shit show.  These are the people who try to find equivalence between Republicans increasingly engaging in anti-democratic practices and *check notes* Cancel Culture. 

Centrisim is a lazy intellectualism at its finest; where one holds no convictions aside from whatever populist nonsense they believe in.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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Rogan apologizes too readily for someone who supposedly thinks he should never be called out for the things he says, and he's far too open about his politics for anyone to consider him "apolitical".

I would probably listen more often if he spent some of his Spotify $$$ on employing a team of researchers though. Better to have more of a fact fence at the top of that cliff so you don't have to take so many rides in that apology ambulance at the bottom.
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(05-31-2021, 03:09 PM)Bucho Wrote: Rogan apologizes too readily for someone who supposedly thinks he should never be called out for the things he says, and he's far too open about his politics for anyone to consider him "apolitical".

I would probably listen more often if he spent some of his Spotify $$$ on employing a team of researchers though. Better to have more of a fact fence at the top of that cliff so you don't have to take so many rides in that apology ambulance at the bottom.

The problem with his apologies is that there's a lack of action behind it.  So it feels less as an acknowledgement that he fucked up and a willingness to do better, and more of the standard "I'm sorry that YOU got offended" apology that many celebrities trot out when they have to apologies but dont' really feel they should.  

It reminds me of what a youtube video I watched years ago that criticized Pewdiepie's own constant controversial statements, calling him the "Mr. Magoo of racism." He just happens to fall into scenarios that are problematic but "he didn't mean it that way, and he sure is sorry that YOU got offended."  I don't think Rogan is as egregious as Pewdiepie or Logan Paul, but there's a constant refusual to take any accountability for the things that he says and does.  And his tendencies to deflect to the culture wars whenever anyone calls him out brings out a lot of red flags for me.  This isn't the first time he's made his bones about "white male grievences" and how he wouldn't be criticized if he weren't White (which is bullshit considering the amount of Black male celebrities who get routinely called out for homophobic or sexist positions).  

It's not a black or white situation; I'm not asking him to take the leftest position on everything. I am asking him to consider his positioning as a world famous celebrity, that he's not just a random guy making a podcast, and recognize the fact that he holds a level of influence whether he means it or not. That's celebrity culture: It doesn't matter if you don't want to be role model--you are one.  And if you take the money, then you take the responsibility.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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(05-31-2021, 03:29 PM)ska oreo Wrote: And if you take the money, then you take the responsibility.

If I wasn't out of rep I'd mash that Rate button just for this line which I am probably totally going to steal.

It's almost as good as my fact fence/apology ambulance line. Almost.
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It's funny when JRE pops up as a recommendation on Spotify. It's like, "Wow, Spotify, it's like you don't know me from Adam... & Eve dot com. Enter promo code 'Probably' at checkout for 10% off your first dildo. Now, speaking of dildoes, my guest on the show today is freeman..."
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No Memorial Day celebration in the Carlson household:

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-tucker...-military/

Quote:Tucker Carlson opened his Memorial Day show by denigrating the very U.S. military on a day we honor those who gave the greatest sacrifice, dying while fighting to preserve the very liberty and freedom that the Fox News primetime host so regularly celebrates.

.....

“So much has changed in the United States in the past year that it’s hard to keep track of it all,” Carlson opened. “Public health experts have been exposed as frauds, as incompetent and dishonest. Our schools are openly teaching racism to our children. Our military, at times, does not seem interested in protecting the country. These are big changes with real ramifications.”

On Saturday, Vice President Kamala Harris was called out by conservatives on Twitter who expressed anger at a Tweet in which she suggested her followers enjoy the long weekend without mentioning the service or sacrifice of military veterans. However, former President Donald Trump did not get the same treatment for his first Memorial Day tweet that complained about gas prices but also neglected to mention military service in any way.
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"Our schools are openly teaching racism to our children."

And Fox News openly teaches it to adults. What's your point?
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On the one hand, hydroxychloroquine doesn't work and lots of our dumb boomer audience might die thinking its an effective covid treatment, but on the other hand, if we don't keep up this charade, Mr Trump might look bad.

Fascinating to see them still trying to thread this needle, a year and a half later, while sane people are getting vaccinated and slowly returning to normal.

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Wait, "shocking *new data*...?"

So, you admit it: new data that leads to a different conclusion will mean you'll need to change your opinion on the subject.

Now try this with everything else.
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I'm sure its shocking new data that proves Trump was right all along. Data validated by somebody like Dr. Oz or that weirdo who sells the brain/prostate pills on InfoWars.

Also:

I know pretty much every night on Tucker Carlson is essentially a low-key klan rally at this point, but this is overtly shocking, even for him:

Quote:At the start of this clip, Tucker says, "Pretty much everybody agreed that segregation was the worst thing this country ever did." He pauses before "worst" and is clearly about to say "best", because he knows exactly what he's doing. Watch it. He's begging you to notice.

https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status/...3895087106
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Cody!
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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Tucker is definitely the turd that won't flush on this agitprop network. They've dumped how many other hateful hoopleheads due to their shenanigans, but nothing can take down this smarmy little dipshit.
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When I turn on my parents television and it, inevitably, is set to Fox News ... again ... I begin to understand how it is that Inuit tribes used to send their elders adrift on ice floes.

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Anyone who believes hydroxychloroquine will work, I support their taking it. Let us toast their health..

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I think the reason why older people watch Fox is because outside of boring police procedurals with over-the-hill protagonists, there's nothing out there that's entertaining for them. Superhero movies are too juvenile and noisy; sitcoms are too diverse and inclusive; cable dramas are too intelligently-written and thinky. There simply aren't enough old Technicolor Westerns to keep them occupied; but now, they'd probably find those boring too. So instead they choose to switch on Fox and sit back and enjoy the culture war that their crass generation dumped in our lap.
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Well, there was that article posted in here awhile back where a TV writer broke down how the development of any given culture war story on Fox Primetime from Monday to Friday is played out like a seasonal arc of a television show.
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I had a recent visit to fly over country to see my dad and he seemed really excited about the potential recall of Gavin Newsome.  Like, he was shocked to me hear say that I didn't think it would be successful.

People really seem to like it when Fox beats up on Dems for whatever reason.
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(06-02-2021, 06:17 PM)schwartz Wrote: Well, there was that article posted in here awhile back where a TV writer broke down how the development of any given culture war story on Fox Primetime from Monday to Friday is played out like a seasonal arc of a television show.

Yeah, I ghost-wrote that.
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Imagine paying money for this:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/donald-tru...tory-tour/

Quote:Former President Donald Trump will join former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly on the road for four events in December.

Billed as “The History Tour,” the first event will take place on December 11 at the BB&T Center in Sunrise, Florida. The second event’s venue has yet to be determined, while the last two will be held at the Toyota Center in Houston and the American Airlines Center in Dallas. All three known venues are the homes of NBA and/or NHL teams, and have capacities of around 20,000. It’s unclear how many seats will be made available for these events.

Organizers of the Trump tour say the appearances “will provide a never-before-heard inside view of his administration — which will be historical in and of itself.”

O’Reilly has written a series of books about historical matters, including a long-running series of titles beginning with “Killing.” They include Killing Kennedy, Killing Reagan, Killing Patton, and Killing Jesus.
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(06-07-2021, 06:05 PM)Iron Maiden Wrote:
Quote:O’Reilly has written a series of books about historical matters, including a long-running series of titles beginning with “Killing.” They include Killing Kennedy, Killing Reagan, Killing Patton, and Killing Jesus.

When's he putting out "Killing My Own Career?"
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You gotta admit, it goes a long way towards everyone's life goal of owning an entire shelf of books with gerund-noun titles.
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Bill O'Reilly, author of books that you see at the grocery store and quietly whisper to yourself, "Who the fuck would read that?"
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Video at the link:

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/statu...3941567489

Quote:Tucker Carlson calls immigration "the most radical possible attack on the core premise of democracy"
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Lobbyists for Rupert Murdoch's media companies are appealing to House Republicans to support antitrust bills meant to restrain Big Tech companies, sources tell Axios:

https://www.axios.com/murdoch-pushes-rep...hantitrust
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Concha deleted the tweet once he realized Eckhart was talking about his current employer, Fox News:

https://twitter.com/JenniferEckhart/stat...5992261632

Quote:Hey @JoeConchaTV, it says you deleted this tweet. I’m glad you agree that women are held to a different standard at Fox. Why did you delete it? You made such a great point!

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“Fox isn’t setting the news agenda, only the culture-war conservative agenda. It’s fun to play the game of ‘What’s the last big story Fox broke?’ You get silence.”

Good interview with Brian Stelter at the link:

https://newrepublic.com/article/162693/b...1623507674

Quote:“The Fox of 2021 is different even than the Fox of 2019.” That was the key point that CNN anchor Brian Stelter wanted to stress in his recent interview with The New Republic. Stelter’s recent book, Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth, an updated edition of which was published in paperback on Tuesday, covers the network’s metamorphosis and accelerating radicalism in the Trump era in exacting depth, offering a rare look inside the profoundly influential cable news network and providing a disturbing inside portrait of how it came to enable Trump’s disastrous presidency.

The book also provides the most detailed account of how Fox came to advance the two big lies of 2020: its decisions to downplay the danger of Covid-19 and back Trump’s deceptive claims about the presidential election. I spoke to Stelter over the phone about the blowback the network received after it called Arizona for Biden early, the sad state of its news division, and where Fox goes from here. 

.....

Along those lines, you write in Hoax about the decline of Fox’s news division and the angst of the few remaining journalists at the network. 

The opinion side is this ever-expanding blob that’s swallowing up the news division. That’s what it is. If you view Fox News as two things [operating] as one—a giant opinion operation and a relatively small news operation, opinion is a blog that is swallowing up the news side. I know it’s archaic to even talk about these two sides because obviously the news side reflects GOP priorities and covers conservatives’ concerns more than anything else.

If you go down the list of what makes a news division, Fox has a news division. However, they don’t have a single bureau in Asia. They don’t have a single bureau in Africa. They basically only have two overseas outposts: London and Jerusalem. This is such a bare-bones news division that they were covering the spread of Covid in China from London! There are clear, undeniable data points that show the weakness of the Fox news division. Also, there are all the people who left who have not been replaced. What’s happened in the last couple of years is that Fox correspondents have quit and joined CNN or CBS or other networks or have left the business altogether in some cases, which is very revealing. That hurts morale. It means there are even fewer reporters to cover the news. And it means that Fox isn’t setting the news agenda, only the culture-war conservative agenda. It’s fun to play the game of “What’s the last big story Fox broke?” You get silence. 
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It’s all about telling scared old white people what they want to here. That “no, it is the children who are wrong.”
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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Hey now. Some of those scared white people aren't that old.
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