Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
THE PUNISHER (NETFLIX)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

2004's The Punisher is probably the worst of the three movies both in its tone (it's aaaalll over the place) and in its portrayal of the central character who never comes across as unhinged or dangerous; merely annoyed. Still, I love the fight with The Russian in that movie and Travolta makes a good enough antagonist that I'll spend some time with it occasionally.... even if I can't really forgive a Punisher movie where Frank Castle tortures someone with a fucking popsicle.


To be fair, the popsicle bit is straight out of War Zone #1:





Jane was pretty good but that movie itself is so misguided. Good final assault scene though. I'll give it that.



'89 version still reigns supreme. "A work in progress." Beautiful.

Reply

Why are we even talking about a Punisher movie set in... Tampa?

Reply

I live in Tampa, and we always laugh that this movie was set here.

Reply
AAny adaptation that turns Frank into a cop is an adaptation that misses the point.

MAKE MINE WAR ZONE!
Reply

One of the great things about the 2004 movie is how they decide to go all the way with the event that kickstarts his vigilante career.  Why just kill his immediate family when you can kill EVERY CASTLE HE'S RELATED TO? I'm surprised they didn't show Travolta blowing up actual stone castles around Europe "just in case".

Reply
ADidn't the '04 movie also try to explain the Skull as some kind of Haitian talisman? Lol, fuck off.

To be fair, I think it's an enjoyable enough revenge flick. Just a bad Punisher movie.
Reply

I don't think so? If I remember correctly, it's the image on his son's t-shirt when he's murdered and so Frank adopts it as his symbol. Been a few years since I watched it, though.

Reply
AI vaguely recal Frank being nursed back to health by a Haitian, and growing a ridiculous beard.
Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


Doing the skull is always going to feel a little incongruous with the way he's generally portrayed, but you kind of have to do it now and get it out of the way. Are you familiar with the death's head Ace of Spades playing card that went around Vietnam and maybe Korea? It was placed on the bodies of enemies as a psyops thing. I think of it like that. He's a soldier on a mission and like the Ace of Spades was for real-life soldiers, it's his calling card to the enemy. He's just some guy witb a gun until you see the skull, and once you see the skull, you know there's no conversation and no negotiation. You know you're fucked.

Here it is:


It's also tactical; like Batman's chest symbol, it misdirects enemies to shoot at the easily identifiable Symbol, which is placed on body armour.


In a firefight, most shooters will go for it, given how its easy to aim at, thus keeping Frank save from a headshot; add the panic/shock of seeing the symbol and knowing who you are facing, and you have a huge tactical advice over the enemy.

Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

It's also tactical; like Batman's chest symbol, it misdirects enemies to shoot at the easily identifiable Symbol, which is placed on body armour.


In a firefight, most shooters will go for it, given how its easy to aim at, thus keeping Frank save from a headshot; add the panic/shock of seeing the symbol and knowing who you are facing, and you have a huge tactical advice over the enemy.


This is especially true in the way War Zone uses it, with it being glow-in-the-dark paint. Enemies would always be aiming for it.

Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

It's also tactical; like Batman's chest symbol, it misdirects enemies to shoot at the easily identifiable Symbol, which is placed on body armour.


In a firefight, most shooters will go for it, given how its easy to aim at, thus keeping Frank save from a headshot; add the panic/shock of seeing the symbol and knowing who you are facing, and you have a huge tactical advice over the enemy.


That idea works great in not reality.



Perfectly fine for comic books.

Reply

I'm only concerned with not reality when it comes to the Punisher.

Reply
AIn reality, the Punisher is a full blown psychopath who would leave a trial of collateral damage in his wake.

In comics, he's a great anti-hero.

Someone somewhere (possibly this thread) stated that Frank's super power is that he doesn't kill innocents. My biggest issue with War Zone is that this power fails him in the first ten minutes.
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post
 

That idea works great in not reality.



Perfectly fine for comic books.


Well yes, but I think every soldier or cop will tell you that in the midst of combat or a shootout, going for a headshot is difficult as hell; shooting at the torso has always been the "to go" option for centuries, simply because of how practical and effective it is.


And remember, most of the foes of the Punisher are criminals and gangsters, not experienced special military forces like he is.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmurdoch View Post

In reality, the Punisher is a full blown psychopath who would leave a trial of collateral damage in his wake.

In comics, he's a great anti-hero.

Someone somewhere (possibly this thread) stated that Frank's super power is that he doesn't kill innocents. My biggest issue with War Zone is that this power fails him in the first ten minutes.

Ennis's depiction of him on the first Punisher MAX series made it clear that unless triggered, Frank never goes in a rampage or guns blazing; he is extremely methodical and tactical in his approach.


His  final arc, "Valley Forge"  has an excellent sequence were two Delta force guys examine the aftermath of a Punisher attack, and dissect extensively just how brutally efficient and secure Frank is in his methods.






Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

It's also tactical; like Batman's chest symbol, it misdirects enemies to shoot at the easily identifiable Symbol, which is placed on body armour.


In a firefight, most shooters will go for it, given how its easy to aim at, thus keeping Frank save from a headshot; add the panic/shock of seeing the symbol and knowing who you are facing, and you have a huge tactical advice over the enemy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

This is especially true in the way War Zone uses it, with it being glow-in-the-dark paint. Enemies would always be aiming for it.




The true reason for the skull symbol, of course, is that The Punisher is a total Edgelord.

Reply

I think we can all agree the best part of Punisher 04 was Kevin Nash's turn as a mute Russian bareknuckle assassin in a Where's Waldo shirt.



Reply
AIf I recall correctly, that character, unlike his comic book counterpart, spoke only Russian instead of stereotypical broken English, which is part of what made him so much fun in the comics.

I still fondly remember the second time Castle encountered The Russian and Castle, bewildered, uttered the words "I cut your head off..." More than Ennis' line, it was Steve Dillon's brilliance as a storyteller that had me laughing like an idiot.

Some amazing artists worked on that title with Ennis, Goran Parlov being my second favorite, but no one could really ever match Dillon's gift for character. Because of him I still remember minor stuff like Det. Soap's severely miscalculated relationship with a bartender whom he thought was a confidant, but who clearly viewed and treated Soap as a clueless, contemptible idiot.
Reply
AThe Russian was also the president of the Daredevil Man Without Fear Fan Club of Smolensk.

Dillon was perfect for the kind of stories Ennis was doing in the Knights title. They later brought him on to do a Max title and the most recent Punisher book (where it looks like they've de-aged Frank and I don't like it much) under other writers that are some real sub-Ennis stuff, even though they're clearly going for that style. Just seemed off, although Dillon's art remained great right up until his death. That collaboration is just impossible to duplicate.

My favorite artist on the Max book was Parlov as well, some great, clear and fluid work. Leandro Fernandez was also really good on that title too.
Reply
A[quote name="JacknifeJohnny" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/150#post_4369091"]If I recall correctly, that character, unlike his comic book counterpart, spoke only Russian instead of stereotypical broken English, which is part of what made him so much fun in the comics.

I still fondly remember the second time Castle encountered The Russian and Castle, bewildered, uttered the words "I cut your head off..." More than Ennis' line, it was Steve Dillon's brilliance as a storyteller that had me laughing like an idiot.

Some amazing artists worked on that title with Ennis, Goran Parlov being my second favorite, but no one could really ever match Dillon's gift for character. Because of him I still remember minor stuff like Det. Soap's severely miscalculated relationship with a bartender whom he thought was a confidant, but who clearly viewed and treated Soap as a clueless, contemptible idiot.[/quote]

"What happened?"
"We had a team up. You were great"

I kinda hate Ennis on regular Punisher; it's far too childish and puerile because of Ennis's distaste for superheroes.*
On Punisher Max, Ennis is absolutely the best writer to ever write the character. The realism and darkness MAX allows Ennis is what makes the difference in quality.

*However, I love Hitman, mainly because it's a full comedy/dark humor series.**

**Also, Ennis's take on Superman in that series is magnificent; I love that Superman is the one superhero Ennis loves and respects. How he never has been a regular writer on Superman is beyond me. It would be on an All Star Superman level.
Reply
AEnnis likes Superman as a hopeful piece of American iconography, but he doesn't like the business of writing superheroes, which is what he would be doing if he took on a Superman title*. As for his treatment of superheroes in MK Punisher, since I'm not a Marvel fanboy I got some enjoyment out of seeing those characters slapped around, specifically Wolverine. Actually, if you look at the Daredevil issue, Ennis treats that character more earnestly than he does the others b/c there's a little more heft to him with his humanity and Catholicism and all that.

It worked so well as a dramtic piece within that story that they adapted it for Daredevil Season 2 was no surprise.








*Now, do I think Ennis could and probably would write a great, stand alone, out-of-continuity Superman story set during the war-time era of that character's birth? Yes, yes I do.
Reply
A[quote name="JacknifeJohnny" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/150#post_4369117"]Ennis likes Superman as a hopeful piece of American iconography, but he doesn't like the business of writing superheroes, which is what he would be doing if he took on a Superman title. As for his treatment of superheroes in MK Punisher, since I'm not a Marvel fanboy I got some enjoyment out of seeing those characters slapped around, specifically Wolverine. Actually, if you look at the Daredevil issue, Ennis treats that character more earnestly than he does the others b/c there's a little more heft to him with his humanity and Catholicism and all that.

It worked so well as a dramtic piece within that story that they adapted it for Daredevil Season 2 was no surprise.[/quote]

Yup. I loved seeing DD find a third way out of that problem.
And I think Ennis's love for Superman is true; Tommy in Hitman is a mouthpiece for Ennis, and I love that Superman is shown as the shining beacon of hope in the world; and Ennis shows a flawed Superman and Clark Kent as well.
His Hitman issue with Superman and the Hitman/JLA issues are some if the best pieces with the character.

[IMG ALT=""]http://www.chud.com/community/content/type/61/id/247606/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]

God dammit, it brings a tear to my eye.
Reply
A"A Confederacy of Dunces" is a good, funny story. I like superheroes, and I like those characters, but I'm not precious about them, so I've always been amused by Ennis's disdain for them-- though he does seem to treat DD with a degree of respect he usually reserves for Superman...

Anyhow, on the show-- I just realized the guy in the trailer with the hipster beard is meant to be Microchip. That's weird and a bit disappointing. Is there some "whitewashing"-equivalent term for casting a young thin dude as a notable fat schlubby middle-aged guy? I mean, other than "Hollywood".
Reply
AProbably. Do you remember the adaptation of Greg Rucka's White Out where Kate Beckinsale plays a character who in the comics looked more average and desexualized? There's even a scene in the movie where they've got her prancing around in her underwear. It's pretty embarrassing and would undoubtedly ENRAGE people if it came out today.
Reply
A[quote name="Slim" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/150#post_4369131"]"A Confederacy of Dunces" is a good, funny story. I like superheroes, and I like those characters, but I'm not precious about them, so I've always been amused by Ennis's disdain for them-- though he does seem to treat DD with a degree of respect he usually reserves for Superman...

Anyhow, on the show-- I just realized the guy in the trailer with the hipster beard is meant to be Microchip. That's weird and a bit disappointing. Is there some "whitewashing"-equivalent term for casting a young thin dude as a notable fat schlubby middle-aged guy? I mean, other than "Hollywood".[/quote]

Ennis's disdain for superheroes was more about them dominating the medium; and let's face it, that's just not true anymore.
I do loved that optimistic pilot character in the Russian returns arc.
Reply
AHow is that not true anymore? No comic book outsells the big two. As far as I'm aware, they still run a sales and merchandising monopoly.
Reply
A[quote name="JacknifeJohnny" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/150#post_4369145"]How is that not true anymore? No comic book outsells the big two. As far as I'm aware, they still run a sales and merchandising monopoly.[/quote]

Yes, but that doesn't really matter any much in terms of creators and variety available.
Yes, superhero comics are the big sellers, but they don't dominate anymore; the huge number of independents and creator projects mean the variety is enormous.
Ennis meant that superheroes were the sole comics out there and being pushed; now, you go to any bookstore and comic store and the variety is just overwhelming.
Hell, even superhero comics themselves are diverse in terms of the genres they encompass these days.
Yes, superhero comics will always be the big sellers, but they are no longer the norm or standard; they no longer bury the other genres.
Reply
AIndependents have been around forever. If you're the biggest seller, that, by definition, means that you dominate your field. I would like for that not to be true, but it is, especially when your product is being buoyed and transformed by major studios like Disney and Warner Bros.

Case in point: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017.html

A whole 2 of 50 titles aren't superhero comics: Star Wars & The Walking Dead in the middle and at the very bottom of the list, respectively.
Reply

Second Trailer. Gives a better idea of the plot and a RELEASE DATE! November 17th to be exact.





I'm more pumped for this than Ragnarok tbh.

Reply

Looks good and Im pumped, but I had hoped for Castle's revenge/past story to be over, and for the series to go full Punisher MAX.


If they dont adapt The Slavers, Up is down/Black is White or Valley Forge, they would be idiots.

Reply
AUp is Down, Black is White and The Slavers are my favorite MAX stories.

Judging from this trailer, the flashbacks will be quality. It might be my Punisher bias, but I’ll take this over any comic book movie for the rest of the year.

I’ll take it over anything next year, Deadpool 2 aside.
Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

Looks good and Im pumped, but I had hoped for Castle's revenge/past story to be over, and for the series to go full Punisher MAX.


If they dont adapt The Slavers, Up is down/Black is White or Valley Forge, they would be idiots.


Honestly, for this reason I'm a little less excited about Punisher.



I'm hoping its quality, but man I'm not digging the WE GOTTA UNCOVER THE TRUTH aspect of the seri

Reply

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed by how much focus seems to be placed on Frank avenging his family when I thought we were past that. I'm also worried that, judging by how little it's featured in the trailer, they're going to make us wait a while for him to wear the skull. If that's the case, after we saw him adopt it at the end of Daredevil season 2, it would be incredibly annoying.

Reply

At the very least Billy Russo is a character in the first season, so it's not going to focus all on Frank's military past.

Reply

Scratch that, after a little more reading it turns out on this show Russo is gonna be a an old war buddy of Frank who is now a private military contractor.



Not so hot on that.

Reply

Hrmmmmmm.

Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)