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UNDERWATER (2020) - Kristen Stewart
It's interesting that fucking ten pages worth of movie has done this to us.

I was telling Nooj I read a script called Dark. It's basically the literal same movie as Underwater, meaning it will never get made now. But it's about deep sea oil drillers in the trench where the world is completely pitch black. They end up finding their monster, in this case a giant Great White/Giant Squid hybrid predator with a unique camouflage system where it refracts all light. It's described as having skin so deeply black that it would have to be rotoscoped out, kind of like the Gorillas in Attack The Block, and whenever someone gets close to it with magnesium flares the flare will start to burn out and die quickly. Any light source near the animal quickly snuffs out for... Sciencey. Reasons. Whatever.

There's a really fun scene where the heroes are running across the bottom of the Ocean trying to get back to their HAB, and they see the massive football stadium lights all around them going out in the distance, progressively more and more lights going out as we come to understand the animal is approaching them. I love cool unique monsters. I loved LIFE where the creature had cells that were literally all muscles, and all brain cells. Fun interesting gimmicks that make your characters lives harder and show us creative set pieces we've never seen before.

This is the sort of imagination I missed in Underwater. They're just fucking Slender Man looking fish man things. It's SOOOO boring.
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THE THING has an actual first act though, right?

It takes its time to establish the players and where they are before things really get going

And in the case of THE THING, the threat gets the characters interacting like crazy... especially since it preys upon the reality of who and what they know

That movie actually feels like it’s about something, and I’ve really only seen it once or twice in full. I never got that from UNDERWATER, even at the most shallow level
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It's got a little more slow stuff at the beginning. It does open with a guy flying in on a helicopter and shooting at them with a rifle. But I guess if it were truly as extreme as Underwater in that regard, it would open with that sequence in the dog pen.

I guess The Thing is the better film.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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The doggo turning into the Thing in the kennel and getting napalmed is the end of Act I. This is where the characters find out as a group that whatever killed those Swedes is now alive and on the loose at their camp.

The doggo arriving at the base is the inciting incident.

Bill Lancaster's a good writer!
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Plus the Thing has the greatest character introduction of all time, while also foreshadowing the ending. The bitch cheats? Burn down the chess board.
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Was Chess Master 2000 really cheating, though??

We'll never know.
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I mean probably.
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(05-11-2021, 12:54 AM)freeman Wrote: Plus the Thing has the greatest character introduction of all time, while also foreshadowing the ending. The bitch cheats? Burn down the chess board.

I have to credit you here, I never considered that foreshadowing, but it is.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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What if MacReady's actually shitty at chess?

What if Chess Master 2000's the Thing??
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(05-11-2021, 01:07 AM)arjen rudd Wrote:
(05-11-2021, 12:54 AM)freeman Wrote: Plus the Thing has the greatest character introduction of all time, while also foreshadowing the ending. The bitch cheats? Burn down the chess board.

I have to credit you here, I never considered that foreshadowing, but it is.
No I don’t like this. No more positivity plz.
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Eh, give it three or four years and you could still make Dark. Deep sea monster movies are fun. Hopefully Dark sets up the characters properly...
There are weapons in my hands, my hands are weapons.
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It’s the same stock stuff. The monster is the star of the show.
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(05-10-2021, 10:46 PM)Jones Wrote:
Quote:I'm saying that if you wish to structure your movie the way Underwater is, if you wish to do something similar, you can still do it. You could have the scene right at the start of the movie when the lead is sitting in the locker room before everything goes to shit.

So wait you're just arguing that you can move the setup of the scene to after the scene itself happens.  Which is pointless - you're still having to spend the time on setup just later on. Underwater has practically no setup at all.  Changing the tooth-brushing scene to a scene where she digs in a toilet for a ring followed by the action starting would just provoke furious questions?  Did she put the ring there?  Why put it there?  Do all deep-sea toilets have rings in them?  And do you see how these questions would distract the audience from just watching the movie - which is exactly what The Abyss doesn't do because it's made properly.

This point seems dumb as there's no problem with having the audience ask some little question. In fact having the audience asking themselves some question, even if for a moment, could be seen as engaging as opposed to distracting.

My point was that the idea you need a first act, or more specifically that you couldn't do that whole ring thing being talked about from The Abyss in something like this movie was a stupid idea based on nothing. It's especially stupid because the scene with ring being thrown in the toilet by Ed Harris happen's shortly after being introduced to his character and seeing him with his wife. It also does not matter if you start by showing the couple bickering and then do the toilet scene, or start with the toilet scene and then get to the bickering as they're both giving you the exact same information even if it is in a different order.

Actually it turns out The Abyss isn't made properly because I just decided the only proper way to make a movie is to only follow the main group of characters the story is foucsed on and The Abyss starts with some other group on a sub for five or six minutes who aren't even Ed Harris and his team. Didn't Cameron know how distracting this is for the audience to be sitting there wondering who these other people are? How many people just walked out and got their money back thinking they accidentally wandered into the wrong underwater movie?
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(05-11-2021, 01:59 AM)simbob Wrote: Actually it turns out The Abyss isn't made properly because I just decided the only proper way to make a movie is to only follow the main group of characters 

Move over, Robert McKee!
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I will accept no more sassy criticism of the Abyss in this thread.

This thread does not DESERVE The Abyss. It is on another level.
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Hah this thread's turning EVERYONE into Robert McKee.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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I've written some scripts and read some scripts! I'm basically him.

GOD HELP YOU IF YOU USE VOICE OVER
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Evi (VO): "God, Freeman's so smug"
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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gotta go back

put in the draaaama
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You see everyone? Without me you don't have conflict. Without me, there's no movie.
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I just randomly changed my mind again. Now The Abyss is made properly because it spends some time showing use the inciting incident on the sub. But this also means The Thing is now not made properly because I need to see what happen over at the Norwegian base. Sorry The Thing, I don't make the rules those just are the rules.
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It doesn't matter if the plot moving mechanism, inciting incident, whatever happens in a short prologue or it happens off-screen. What's important is that after the setup is complete, you hit your first plot point, turning point, story opportunity, catalyst. Whatever is the most appropriate name for it, Underwater has one too. The team with the leadership of the Captain decides their only option is to slap on diving suits and take a walk, and on the heroes go to the new situation and the second plot point that's going to jumpstart Act Two yadda yadda.

Underwater still has a setup. It just doesn't feel much like setup.
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(05-11-2021, 12:45 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: It's got a little more slow stuff at the beginning. It does open with a guy flying in on a helicopter and shooting at them with a rifle. But I guess if it were truly as extreme as Underwater in that regard, it would open with that sequence in the dog pen.

See, not really because that'd be kicking off with the main plot. Underwater doesn't introduce that until they run into the monsters, which is a ways into the film. The disaster actually acts as a setup of sorts.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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That’s kinda what I meant originally. The inciting incident is their undersea base breaks, and the reveal of monsters is the end of Act One. But the truth is I haven’t seen Underwater since it came out and I may well get the structural details jumbled.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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Ah yeah...good film debate. Instead of talking about dem MARBLE TRASH.

(05-11-2021, 06:54 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: That’s kinda what I meant originally. The inciting incident is their undersea base breaks, and the reveal of monsters is the end of Act One. But the truth is I haven’t seen Underwater since it came out and I may well get the structural details jumbled.

Yeah you're right.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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It's essentially THE DESCENT if they got trapped underground two minutes after the film starts.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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For me, UNDERWATER > THE DESCENT.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Hey now, lets not say things we can't take back.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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(05-11-2021, 07:59 AM)MichaelM Wrote: For me, UNDERWATER > THE DESCENT.

Ohh this needs to stop now. Sure Marshall's career is over now but that is a stone cold classic.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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Man, THE ABYSS is a really good movie.
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I said FOR ME, folks!

My measurement is that I've watched UNDERWATER more than once. DESCENT once, years and years ago.

I'm not arguing on any kind of objective level. Just my personal enjoyment.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(05-11-2021, 08:36 AM)MichaelM Wrote: I said FOR ME, folks!

My measurement is that I've watched UNDERWATER more than once. DESCENT once, years and years ago.

I'm not arguing on any kind of objective level. Just my personal enjoyment.

Understood but what im saying to you is that you are wrong about your own preferences. Im sorry you had to find out this way.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Any time somebody on the internet claims a preference, he means he is objectively correct. That's just science.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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Finished a rewatch.

Meh.
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