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The Winds of Winter
#1
Can we talk about this yet?  Is making this thread naive and overly optimistic?  Probably, but I honestly think this book stands a chance of being released this year.  Martin has updated his blog quite a bit recently, and apparently he’s self-isolating at a mountain retreat, writing everyday.  I know many fans have given up on the idea of Martin ever finishing this series, but I’ve always thought at the very least Winds will end up seeing the light of day. 


Am I an idiot for believing this?  Feel free to let me know!  What are everyone’s thoughts on this long awaited book?  Story predictions?  Is Dany going to finally make it to Westeros?  Is this the end of our friend Stannis?  Who the hell wrote the pink letter that sealed Jon’s fate?  How much closer will we be to the end game of ASOIAF at the end of this book?

I’ll start with a few general predictions:

Mance wrote the letter that was sent to the Wall at the end of ADWD, possibly with Melisandre's help.  Both Boltons will die at some point in this book. 

By the end of the book Dany will have reached Westeros and Young Griff/Aegon will be a more formidable threat to her than Cersei.

Victarion will die early on in the Battle of Slaver’s Bay, possibly along with Bariston Selmy.  Euron will make it through to the final book, and will have a significant role to play in the White Walker invasion of the south. 
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#2
This never happens.

And I'd argue that Dany has to make it to Westeros by no later than the middle of the book, because there's no fucking way Martin could write only one more book about her attempted conquest of Westeros. That's, at a minimum, a two book arc.

I'd say it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Winds of Winter, written by Martin, gets published in the next few years. But he never finishes the series.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#3
I would agree that Dany needs to make it to Westeros no later than halfway through the book in order to give that particular storyline the weight it deserves.  And I also doubt very much we’ll ever see A Dream of Spring.  At this point, I’d be happy just to see Winds.

I also wouldn’t be shocked to learn Winds is going to be split up into two volumes, similar to Feast/Dance.  I’m curious to know if that’s the issue, that he’s struggling to condense two books worth of story into a single novel, or if he’s just dealing with writer’s block.
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#4
I don't think we can attribute 9 years between books to writer's block. Martin wrote for television; he, in theory, can write when he doesn't "feel" like it.

This is a result of being a "pantser" as a writer and allowing himself to be involved in far too many other projects.

If Brandon Sanderson can assume control over The Wheel of Time and not just finish it but improve it in four years (three VERY large books), Martin has no excuse for publishing only two books in his series in the last 15 years.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#5
And here I thought the bump in this thread was going to be an announcement of an actual release date. HAHAHA

I've thought about how WoT ended for awhile since I finished it awhile back and I have to say it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth IMHO. Nothing against Sanderson, who did as good a job as he could with the massive task he was given.

This series is never going to be finished or it will be concluded in a very half-assed way.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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#6
GRRM has bought a railroad.

I'm not kidding: https://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-...oad-2020-5


Quote:"It is going to take a lot of work, more than a few bucks, and a fair amount of time to get the railroad running again," Martin said on his blog. "There are tracks and trestles to inspect and repair, old historic coaches to restore to their former splendor, a dead locomotive to bring back to life … it's a good thing I don't have any large projects that require time and focus right now."


I may have made up part of that quote.



He's never, ever finishing this series.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#7
Hahaha I don't read the books but this is all very amusing to me. I feel bad for him because he's like a dude stuck in a bad marriage. He clearly doesn't WANT to finish the series but a feels a lot of pressure to nonetheless. He'd save everyone a ton of headaches if he just passes it off onto a writer he trusts with all his notes.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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#8
(05-26-2020, 08:34 AM)Evi Wrote: Hahaha I don't read the books but this is all very amusing to me. I feel bad for him because he's like a dude stuck in a bad marriage. He clearly doesn't WANT to finish the series but a feels a lot of pressure to nonetheless. He'd save everyone a ton of headaches if he just passes it off onto a writer he trusts with all his notes.

I can’t imagine this is true.  Every time he’s mentioned Winds in the past five years, he sounds like he’s carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.  I’m sure the pressure he must being feeling from his publisher is immense, they’ve got a surefire best-seller just waiting to be unleashed to the legions of Thrones fans.  It’s annoying, and I would agree with Michael that he’s overextended himself with dozens of projects, but I don’t believe that he doesn’t want these books finished.  He knows he will be remembered for this series, whether he likes it or not.

Also, in fairness to our dear friend George, he’s writing a book that will be longer than Fellowship of the Ring, Two Towers and Return of the King combined, just as Dance with Dragons was.
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#9
GRRM says he’s made major progress on Winds of Winter and hopes to release it next year.
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#10
It was an interesting post, and it furthers my belief that he truly does care about this series and at least wants to finish it. Whether or not he’s successful, that remains to be seen. I fully understand why the post will be met with eye rolls and continued skepticism, it’s certainly warranted at this point. But on the other hand, this is probably the most substantive update on Winds he’s given us in years.

Having said that, holy shit- how long would we have have been waiting for this book without Coivd? It sounds like our only hope of getting him to concentrate on the task at hand is a worldwide crisis that’s forced him to isolate himself in his mountain retreat.
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#11
And shuts down the NFL season for good.

I do wonder if the negative reaction to the end of the TV show paradoxically reinvigorated his interest, as it created a chance to "fix" the ending that previously had been usurped from him by the megapopular Frankenstein's monster that had eclipsed his original creation.
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#12
(06-25-2020, 06:19 PM)schwartz Wrote: And shuts down the NFL season for good.

I do wonder if the negative reaction to the end of the TV show paradoxically reinvigorated his interest, as it created a chance to "fix" the ending that previously had been usurped from him by the megapopular Frankenstein's monster that had eclipsed his original creation.



That’s a perspective I hadn’t considered.  Whatever it takes to motivate him to deliver this book, I’m all for it. He’s said publicly that that he felt the show should have run ten seasons, so I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he was less than satisfied with the last few seasons of the show.
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#13
GoT is his legacy. The TV series will always overshadow the books due to audience size, but I can't imagine he wants that version of his story to be the -only- complete one.

More than the fan reaction I think is the fact that the characters are his creations; his children. And they were turned into cheesy action-movie caricatures. That's gotta sting.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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#14
I would love to see alternate takes on Brienne and Daenerys.
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#15
2022 at the earliest. A brief eleven years since the previous book!

He's never finishing this series, guys. Just accept it.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#16
(06-25-2020, 09:32 PM)JMurdoch Wrote: I would love to see alternate takes on Brienne and Daenerys.

Now would be a good tome to accept that there is no version of this story where Dany doesn’t break bad, if that’s what you’re angling for.
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#17
(06-25-2020, 11:29 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 09:32 PM)JMurdoch Wrote: I would love to see alternate takes on Brienne and Daenerys.

Now would be a good tome to accept that there is no version of this story where Dany doesn’t break bad, if that’s what you’re angling for.

Im pefectly okay with her heel turn.  Im looking forward to a more gradual telling of it that the book will offer.  

If it ever gets published which I doubt.
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#18
And here I thought this thread was updated with a release date!

HAHAHAHAHA

*wipes away tear*
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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#19
(06-25-2020, 11:43 PM)JMurdoch Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 11:29 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 09:32 PM)JMurdoch Wrote: I would love to see alternate takes on Brienne and Daenerys.

Now would be a good tome to accept that there is no version of this story where Dany doesn’t break bad, if that’s what you’re angling for.

Im pefectly okay with her heel turn.  Im looking forward to a more gradual telling of it that the book will offer.  

If it ever gets published which I doubt.


I’m sure there will be a heel turn for Dany, it well just be handled far better in the books, with more nuance and logic, than what the show gave us.  Martin’s already begun laying the foundation for that turn with Dance, where diplomacy got her nowhere and Quaithe is urging her to “remember who you are.” I suspect the Dany that emerges from the Dothraki Sea will have a slightly different outlook regarding warfare/ruling. 

I do think we’ll see Winds at some point.  I don’t have much hope for A Dream of Spring.
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#20
I look forward to Brandon Sandersons Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring published within two years of each other, both receiving rave reviews despite Jon Snow suddenly developing Wushu super powers.
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#21
Sanderson will not finish the books. He can't convincingly use profanity or sex.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#22
Then Martin had better hurry up if he doesn't want a Mormon capper to his lifes work!

Sanderson might accidentally finish the series on a free afternoon without even realizing it!
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#23
Sanderson actually uses the phrase "Son of a dog!" in the final WOT book, instead of "Son of a bitch!" His inability to use a swear is hilarious.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#24
He wont get his own planet if he swears sinner!!!
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#25
(06-29-2020, 10:22 AM)MichaelM Wrote: Sanderson will not finish the books. He can't convincingly use profanity or sex.

I always thought Joe Abercrombie would be a good choice to wrap things up if need be.
Just this guy, you know?
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#26
... Of Fitch fame?
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#27
This whole time they've been huge sci-fi/fantasy nerds and we're just now making the connection?

I guess Fitch writes horror?
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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#28
https://joeabercrombie.com/
Just this guy, you know?
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#29
I wouldn't want Abercrombie to finish ASOIAF.  I think he would probably be a good choice as a writer but I enjoy his work so much and it would suck if he put his work on pause to finish   
Martin's.
I think these screen captures and giant (Dildi? Is there a plural?) are just the next step in the JJ Abrams online adventure series. Very slyly played, Bitches Leave.-Tom Fuchs
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#30
We already have a version of the ending done by someone else.  I don't have much curiosity for anyone other than Martin himself's version. 

(he said, quite hypocritically)
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#31
(06-29-2020, 11:46 AM)schwartz Wrote: We already have a version of the ending done by someone else.  I don't have much curiosity for anyone other than Martin himself's version. 

(he said, quite hypocritically)

You don't want to look at the rather extensive journal, notes and chapter summaries outlines I compiled to try to fix this mess ...

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#32
Well, I was a wee bit too optimistic in thinking the book could be released later this year. Clearly that’s not in the cards. I will say though that I find Martin’s blog updates over the past few months to be fascinating and cause for some cautious optimism. Unless you’re of the belief that he’s just making all this up out of whole cloth, he’s writing on a daily basis and seems determined to finish the book.

Thinking back to previous blog updates from 2015, when he was implying the book would be released in the near future, I do honestly think that he must have been unsatisfied with the finished (or nearly finished) product and either started over or decided to revise the story significantly.
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#33
(08-18-2020, 06:32 PM)Kevin Macken 2.0 Wrote: Well, I was a wee bit too optimistic in thinking the book could be released later this year.  Clearly that’s not in the cards.  I will say though that I find Martin’s blog updates over the past few months to be fascinating and cause for some cautious optimism.  Unless you’re of the belief that he’s just making all this up out of whole cloth, he’s writing on a daily basis and seems determined to finish the book.

Thinking back to previous blog updates from 2015, when he was implying the book would be released in the near future, I do honestly think that he must have been unsatisfied with the finished (or nearly finished) product and either started over or decided to revise the story significantly.

I can't be arsed to dig it up, but there was a very realistic sounding argument that he had discarded at least 200-300 pages sometime last year.

Considering that he scrapped the original version of the fourth book in its entirety after apparently writing half of it, that sounds like par for the course for GRRM.  

**grains of salt must be taken as GRRM is an unreliable narrator of his own efforts.

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#34
Right, I’m wondering if he experienced something similar to his problems with the original draft of AFFC. He’s said that he lost a year’s worth of writing because he was ultimately unsatisfied with the 5 year gap between Swords and Crows. I’m almost as curious to hear him discuss his experience writing Winds as I am to actually read the book.
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#35
(08-18-2020, 06:32 PM)Kevin Macken 2.0 Wrote: I will say though that I find Martin’s blog updates over the past few months to be fascinating and cause for some cautious optimism.  

[Image: giphy.gif]


Oh, Kevin. My sweet summer child.

Have the last NINE years taught you nothing? I mean, Martin himself a year ago promised he'd be done....a year ago.

IF the Winds of Winter is published before Martin dies, it's 2022 at the earliest.

He will not finish the series.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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