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The FRAME WORK Podcast thread
I went in to this expecting to have a really good time, honestly. I was totally ready to get on the Snyder Cut wavelength. But it defied me, at every turn.

I think we’ve just seen so many stories like this recently, so many superhero films. It doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy them anymore, it just means they can’t just be OK. I find the basic, competent stuff to be tedious now. Which you would think means I’d like Snyder’s excesses, and I guess I kinda do, even when they’re not good, but the massive majority of this four hours is basic competent stuff. Not impressed.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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I wasn't sure what I expected. Like, I guess it is better than BvS by being about 25% less dour, but..it's still pretty dour. And just interminably lengthy/paced. Bucho said he didn't feel the repetition, but I can't believe that anyone didn't find it weird when Aquaman had an entire second introductory sequence on the sinking boat and returning to the same fishing village, like an hour into the movie.
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I was mostly referring to Arjen's frustrated "IT'S THE SAME DAMN MOVIE" thing. There's not a single moment of it I ever need to see again, but there also were shockingly few moments in the 17 hour run time I was bored. Because he leans so hard into his thing I found even the goofiest of the goofy stuff entertaining on some level.
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I was happy to hear the Justice League cartoon being referenced. The episode with alternate reality Justice Lords was more mature than MOS and BvS; IMO at least.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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Yes. I'm shocked at how well the writing holds up. Obviously the rules are different in producing live action and cartoons, with different expectations, but it's stunning how much they accomplish with absolute economy. They've got one off villains with more gravitas than the entire monster squad of the Snyderverse combined.

And I didn't mention this, but the cast they've assembled for these is outrageous. Some are lay-ups, like Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill as Batman and Joker, and Clancy Brown as the single best interpretation of Lex Luthor, but every episode has crazy pulls. Jeffrey Combs as The Question, a conspiracy theorist superhero. William Atherton as Dr. Destiny, the weird sorcerer from The Sandman. Rob Zombie as Cthulhu!

There's an episode about Hawk and Dove, a pair of superhero brothers whose gimmick is that one of them is a liberal and the other is conservative. They're played by Fred Savage as the liberal one, and as the conservative one, Jason Hervey, who's really only known as the guy who played Fred Savage's brother Wayne on The Wonder Years. That's commitment to a bit.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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(03-28-2021, 12:28 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: There's an episode about Hawk and Dove, a pair of superhero brothers whose gimmick is that one of them is a liberal and the other is conservative. They're played by Fred Savage as the liberal one, and as the conservative one, Jason Hervey, who's really only known as the guy who played Fred Savage's brother Wayne on The Wonder Years. That's commitment to a bit.

...I...WHAT??
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hahaha it’s so easy to read the last two posts as voices on the podcast
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Look, it's not that they're really cool, or anything. They're among the dumber things on the show.
[Image: hall-brothers-hawkndove.jpeg?resize=1024%2C575&ssl=1]

But they are indeed superhero brothers, one liberal and one conservative, voiced by the brothers from The Wonder Years. It happened!
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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I think what trips me reading about it is the implication that the most generic political disagreement imaginable is somehow the source of superpowers?
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Combs was great as The Question.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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I love the Question so much. I would love to see a live action Jeffrey Combs as Question and a Rosario Dawson as Rene Montoya who becomes the Question film.
"Wilford Brimley can't be bothered to accept praise. He doesn't act because he thinks people will enjoy his work. He acts because it's his goddamned job." --Will Harris, AV Club
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And here comes Part 2 of the Lord of the Rings conversation.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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1,000% agree on the thing about maps. We have a massive world map in our living room, and a huge NZ map in our bedroom (hawt). My desktop backgrounds for both PC and laptop are maps. And I haven't actually done the math, but I'd wager I've probably spent about 7 months worth of my lifetime so far tooling around on Google Earth.

God I love a good map.
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Under the NZ map does it say "LORD OF THE RINGS was filmed here" ?
"I don't do tag-teams with blood relatives". Kenny Powers.
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There should at least be parentheticals that identify (/Edoras), (/Hobbiton), (/Weathertop), etc.
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I mean, all NZers know where those things are without labels, but funnily enough I'm actually heading down to Wellywood this long weekend and will be dropping in at Weta Workshop on Monday (I'm literally AMPED to see all the miniature malarkey in particular), so it'd probably be rude not to pick something up from there along those lines.
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correction!

the matrix sequels came out the same year

May 2003
November 2003

And as far as I’m aware, no franchise tried to do that again!
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How far apart were BttF 2 & 3?
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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Part 2 was November 1989

Part 3 was May 1990

It's actually the flip of the Matrix sequels! different year, but the same 6 months apart
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The final part of the Lord of the Rings conversation.
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Finally!
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This 3-parter was a lovely love letter to PJ's 3-parter. You guys covered it all so comprehensively that I have nothing worth a dang to add, so I'll just say thanks for sharing this heartwarming chat.
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Thank you for the very kind words, Bucho.

Here's a new conversation about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, featuring Nooj. And inevitably, some extra Snyder Cut grievances at the end.
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"It's a shame Chadwick Boseman died."

COLD, man!

Wink
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I'm a humanitarian!


(04-12-2021, 08:15 PM)Bucho Wrote: This 3-parter was a lovely love letter to PJ's 3-parter. You guys covered it all so comprehensively that I have nothing worth a dang to add, so I'll just say thanks for sharing this heartwarming chat.


These are lovely words. (sweat beads on brow)  They'd, uh, (pulls collar) look great in a review on a podcast app...
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(04-13-2021, 11:16 AM)schwartz Wrote: I'm a humanitarian!


(04-12-2021, 08:15 PM)Bucho Wrote: This 3-parter was a lovely love letter to PJ's 3-parter. You guys covered it all so comprehensively that I have nothing worth a dang to add, so I'll just say thanks for sharing this heartwarming chat.


These are lovely words. (sweat beads on brow)  They'd, uh, (pulls collar) look great in a review on a podcast app...

I meeeeeeeeean, I use Pocket Casts, which doesn't have a review feature as far as I can tell, but my records show I 5-starred and glowingly reviewed Frame Work on iTunes months ago.

THANKS FOR NOTICING.


(It's not actually your fault - seeing iTunes reviews from their stores which cater to countries outside your own is a pain in the jacksy.)
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I don't just hate begging for attention, I'm also really bad at it.
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I was lolling out loud when Schwartz was going on about how in the real world he'd be agreeing with Civil War Zemo and also definitely taking the super soldier serum (SSS).
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Bucho definitely has my proxy when it comes to speaking with fish.
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I agreed 100% with all of it, but the way you expressed it felt like almost like a stand-up bit so I really was laughing out loud at it.

I don't even lol at 98% of the comedy podcasts I listen to.
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Off topic but how was your trip to Wellywood? Was that work or fun?
"I don't do tag-teams with blood relatives". Kenny Powers.
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Just wrapped up your LOTR 3 parter. I agree with almost all of it.....except your segment on resisting the ring. Yeah, Tom Bombadil belongs to the 7 season HBO/Amazon LOTR adaptation, where we don't get to Rivendell until the end of Season 1. But the way Gandalf bites down in tone on not even entertaining the thought of being offered the ring. Boromir's struggle, multiple times and ultimately losing that struggle, and Galadriel's freakout play so very well. Galadriel is told to us (by Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas) as incredibly powerful, either as a witch or highest of Elves or his step-mother in Aragorn's PHub flashback. Galadriel is shook, tells us that she will diminish and leave Middle Earth after she resists. She looks like it took all her willpower to deny the Ring. All this is in the film. She says that she has long thought about what she could do with the ring, and here Frodo offers it? The Hobbit makes it much more explicit how powerful Galadriel is, and she, unlike Gandalf, is not tasked with saving Middle Earth.

Smeagol, Bilbo, and Frodo are eaten by the Ring. Sam is the lone person to truly resist the ring, handing it back to Frodo quite easily. Sam offers to keep it-- maybe because of its sway but the film nor actor highlights any oddity in Sam's nature there. But Frodo's hunger drives him to snatch it away again.

Fantastic conversation in total. I never thought about Sound Design as why the HP films don't sit in my memory as hard. The Theme song conversation is another great piece and I would love to see more breakdowns of film score technique (a podcast survey course?). I can hum the HP theme song right now, but Avengers? Not really. I just tried and I got about 4 bars in before accidently conflating it with Trek '09's Enterprising Young Men's fast paced run. I think of Thor and I think of Waititi's song choice when Thor is bringing the lightning in the Rainbow Bridge fight.

Also, I like Nooj on these things. Nooj, you have a stand alone podcast?
"Wilford Brimley can't be bothered to accept praise. He doesn't act because he thinks people will enjoy his work. He acts because it's his goddamned job." --Will Harris, AV Club
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Neverrrrr!!!
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The scenes of people being tempted by the ring all play well individually, but I think they aggregate in a way where they start to make each other feel less special. There is a ton of talk (and not just talk, but dramatic incident) about how the ring is this irresistible corrupting influence, but that is undercut when it gets offered to 10 different people throughout the series and 6 of them are able to say no thanks.
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one really needs to be stuck with the ring for a week before it REALLY takes hold!  

Before that, it's all good!

For me, it works in the sense that all these powerful benevolent characters always freak out at the sight of it, and don't dare to entertain the notion.  But yeah, I can see that the effect of such scenes become a matter of diminishing returns hahahaha

Really, I think Boromir's downfall by the Ring really locks in how seriously we take its influence in FELLOWSHIP.  TWO TOWERS has Gollum as the uber-cautionary-tale for falling to the Ring (at least until the ROTK opening where it seems like he was always a creep).  And RETURN OF THE KING has Frodo at his most worn down. 


What I find funny is the fact that Elrond is all "DESTROY IT!!!!" and Isildur goes "No...."

and apparently Elrond just let the guy take that long walk down Mt Doom without trying much harder than that to appeal to his better nature.

Tut tut, Elrond!  Tut tut!
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