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Finch Club: Talkin' Fincher
#36
So is Fight Club an Identity situation?
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#37
Since other roles played by Meatloaf was brought up, I do suggest Roadie. It's a quirky rock n roll movie. Meatloaf stars as Travis Redfish the greatest roadie in the world. He earned that title because he can fix anything.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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#38
Fight Club is still a defining film for me, but the twist reveal scene has always been my least favorite scene. It always came off as a little too on the nose to me. I sort of wish that scene wasn't quite so exposition heavy so the final act had a more ambiguous Lynchian feel. I suppose it is necessary, though.
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#39
I don't think they are going for Lynchian eerieness so much as blackly comic farce, though.

I generally hate mutliple personality twists, but something about the way FIGHT CLUB handles the absurdity makes it work.
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#40
So, I have some projects I have been working on all weekend, and I had exhausted my normal supply of podcasts. I subscribed a while back for your GoT retrospective but never quite made it back.

I am really glad I did. I started with your Fincher set and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I am a mild Aliens3 defender (I understand its flaws, but I still find it interesting), and the conversation doesn't disappoint. I will likely go backwards and listen to the rest. Great work.
"Wilford Brimley can't be bothered to accept praise. He doesn't act because he thinks people will enjoy his work. He acts because it's his goddamned job." --Will Harris, AV Club
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#41
It really means a lot to hear that people are enjoying this, especially the good folks that we've been interacting with here for years. We're having a lot of fun doing it, and I think in this year of lockdown and isolation, it's been a real tonic. I hope we ge the chance to talk to everyone here, eventually.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#42
Rewatching it this week, for the first time since incels became a thing, it really is quite odd that this movie apparently means so much to them. Especially since Tyler is a total Chad.

I do have to say though, I was this close to cancelling Schwartz for his blindingly misogynistic claim that women can't be as misguidedly "revolutionary" as men. Do you even read the news bro?
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#43
I was mainly saying that Fight Club as presented is a radicalizing petrie dish for specfically single, working/middle class men. Imo, if it changed up its style considerably to attract women, or married men, it would look unrecognizably different.
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#44
Fair enough! I do think you three went slightly overboard with the whiteness angle though - there were several black guys involved and it's not like punk rock or anarchy were ever exclusively white affairs. Aside from maybe the scene with the Asian store clerk I saw neither text nor subtext for any racial angle.

I did find myself thinking again about the "incel bible" angle this morning though. If there's a moment in the film in which it's even insinuated that the issue any of these guys have is that they can't get laid I don't recall it. Heck, the only time anyone even comes close to lamenting such a thing it's a woman! When Ed Norton is hearing the fucking upstairs there's never a sense that he's wishing it was him and he rejects the idea of sex with Marla when Tyler asks if he wants to. He's done nothing to pursue Marla at any point, and in fact has actively tried to arrange it so that they never cross paths, and the only reason their paths cross again is because she initiates it. If he's cel it's 100% voluntary.

So if Norton's not at all an incel and Brad's a Chad, who are they relating to?
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#45
(03-08-2021, 04:10 PM)Bucho Wrote: So if Norton's not at all an incel and Brad's a Chad, who are they relating to?


The general emasulation concept; that they held up their end of the social compact by existing, and it was the culture that failed to produce the riches, sex, and esteem of their peers which it was obligated to deliver them.  

The sex angle is rather implicit, as the focus is on the hollowness of consumerism.  But the lack of women becomes conspicuous at a point, no?
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#46
Oh, for sure, the sausage party aspect is conspicuous as heck, but for me there's never a sense that women are a focus of any of the men in either positive or negative ways. And of the three characters for whom sex is a part of their story, two are women and both want it. The man only half wants it, to the point he's split in two before he chooses to engage in it. And maybe it's my lack of research into incel culture that's tripping me up here, but I figured that culture was very sex-focused. I guess, like you say, it is that more general emasculation angle they dig into.

In other feedback:

1. I still wasn't quiiiiiiiiite buying Pitt as an actor capable of playing an actual human being at this point in his career, but it works great in this movie because he's not a human being.

2. Edward Norton bores me here until Pitt shows up. Again though, not a problem, since a big part of the deal is he feels like a nothing until he starts to Tyler it up.

3. HBC reminds me A TON of Sigourney Weaver in this. I never noticed it on previous watches, but having just watched 3 Ripley films it really struck me not just how the two actors are facially similar, but she gives Marla a very Ripley accent and - in her calmer moments especially - some very Ripley facial expressions and body language. I would bet $1,000,000,000 that HBC watched Alien 3 after she signed on to work with Fincher and decided to bite that accent as well as other aspects of Weaver's performance. When I brought this up to Nooj and DT they slapped me down, but me and my $1,000,000,000 stand by it.
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#47
you’re on your own, bucho

if I squint a bit, I can see what you’re talking about... but it’s definitely not a thought that had ever crossed my mind

maybe mostly because there’s such a height difference between the two actors. bonham Carter is so tiny!
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#48
Yeah, it's not that HBC carries herself like Ripley or shares her stature - they're plenty distinct in that way of course - but the accents/vocal tones are super similar, as are several of the looks Marla gives.

It's not the entire performance by any means, but it is in there, I swear by Grabthar's hammer.
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#49
(03-08-2021, 03:48 AM)Bucho Wrote: Rewatching it this week, for the first time since incels became a thing, it really is quite odd that this movie apparently means so much to them. Especially since Tyler is a total Chad.

I do have to say though, I was this close to cancelling Schwartz for his blindingly misogynistic claim that women can't be as misguidedly "revolutionary" as men. Do you even read the news bro?

  I can see where your coming from. At that point in podcast I did think of Marjorie Taylor Green. Qanon is different than Project Mayhem, but it is a scary cult nevertheless.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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#50
(03-07-2021, 06:17 PM)schwartz Wrote: I don't think they are going for Lynchian eerieness so much as blackly comic farce, though.

I generally hate mutliple personality twists, but something about the way FIGHT CLUB handles the absurdity makes it work.

Fair point, although the ending certainly has surrealism in spades. I'm still curious how the film might play if the twist wasn't spelled out so hard in the reveal, but I realize asking for subtlety in a film that is supposed to be like a punch to the face (no pun intended) is probably a bit silly.

Anyway, I've always wanted Fincher to tackle another project that has a similar tone of surrealism and weirdness like FC and The Game. I guess Benjamin Button is only other time he really dabbled in surrealism (lol), but the tone of that is obviously miles away from his 90's films.
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#51
(03-09-2021, 02:35 AM)Chaz Rock City Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 03:48 AM)Bucho Wrote: Rewatching it this week, for the first time since incels became a thing, it really is quite odd that this movie apparently means so much to them. Especially since Tyler is a total Chad.

I do have to say though, I was this close to cancelling Schwartz for his blindingly misogynistic claim that women can't be as misguidedly "revolutionary" as men. Do you even read the news bro?

  I can see where your coming from. At that point in podcast I did think of Marjorie Taylor Green. Qanon is different than Project Mayhem, but it is a scary cult nevertheless.

I thought of the Proud Boys, but it was impossible not to think of all Qanon's wildly shifting goalposts during the "his name is Robert Paulson" scene.
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#52
"The things you own end up owning you."
"I'm a thirty year old boy." "We're a generation of men raised by women."
Destruction of credit card companies.

Three things FIGHT CLUB got very right. Which is three more than most movies.
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#53
This week, we're talking about Panic Room, with return appearance by the world's foremost Panic Room expert, Nooj.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#54
(03-09-2021, 07:22 PM)engineer Wrote: "The things you own end up owning you."
"I'm a thirty year old boy."  "We're a generation of men raised by women."
Destruction of credit card companies.

Three things FIGHT CLUB got very right.  Which is three more than most movies.

I don't like the 'raised by women' reference....too misogynistic. More like raised by TV/movies

Quote:Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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#55
That's true, TV played a massive part.
He does come off as misogynistic, though the basic fact that divorces sky rocketed in their childhood age bracket remains true.

Also, big big love here for PANIC ROOM.
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#56
(03-12-2021, 07:25 PM)engineer Wrote: Also, big big love here for PANIC ROOM.


EXPLAIN YOURSELF!
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#57
I've never seen Panic Room, but I do have a thought on the brief derail about movie criminals who get away with it. In Gross Point Blank, Martin Blank faces no consequences for his life of crime, but since John Cusack is great in that movie, I'm cool with that.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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#58
(03-13-2021, 12:20 AM)schwartz Wrote:
(03-12-2021, 07:25 PM)engineer Wrote: Also, big big love here for PANIC ROOM.

EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

Well, it was a stormy summer night and a difficult experience, but against all odds, I was born into the world.
The doctors all agreed I was awesome, and I stayed that way ever since.  That's pretty much it.

On a related note, PANIC ROOM is a bunch of fun for me.
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#59
(03-13-2021, 01:12 AM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: I've never seen Panic Room, but I do have a thought on the brief derail about movie criminals who get away with it. In Gross Point Blank, Martin Blank faces no consequences for his life of crime, but since John Cusack is great in that movie, I'm cool with that.

I'm trying to figure out why GROSSE POINTE does not seem like a fully apt comparison, and I think it's because assassin/hitman movies feel like a distinct subgenre from "crime movies".  Despite murder for hire being most definitely a crime, it's a different thing because there is no big bag of money that the criminal is chasing. The crime movie is built around that TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE thing where the criminals all have to be taken down when they can't give up on the pursuit of that Big Score, as punishment for that greed.  The template for a hitman movie, by contrast, generally has them motivated by guilt or desperation rather than greed, which leads them to renounc their life of inquity fairly early on and spend the main body of the film fighting their way out of it.  

Not sure if that makes sense.


(03-13-2021, 02:00 AM)engineer Wrote:
(03-13-2021, 12:20 AM)schwartz Wrote:
(03-12-2021, 07:25 PM)engineer Wrote: Also, big big love here for PANIC ROOM.

EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

Well, it was a stormy summer night and a difficult experience, but against all odds, I was born into the world.
The doctors all agreed I was awesome, and I stayed that way ever since.  That's pretty much it.

On a related note, PANIC ROOM is a bunch of fun for me.


I like PANIC ROOM a good deal too, but "big, big love" seemed like a lot for such a deliberately small film.
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#60
The Good:
Jodie, Kristen, Forest, Dwight, excellent set design, cinematography, effects work, great sense of character and location, love the Howard Shore score, it's an exceptionally tightly paced and economic machine of suspense with leads you can identify and empathize with. Even Leto doesn't bother me here, and that's saying something. A class director's take on a genre potboiler that elevates high above the average.

The Bad:
Not a damn thing I can think of, for my money. If it were on bluray, I'd already have it.
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#61
it's SO weird that it has yet to get a bluray release
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#62
(03-13-2021, 10:01 PM)engineer Wrote: The Good:
Jodie, Kristen, Forest, Dwight, excellent set design, cinematography, effects work, great sense of character and location, love the Howard Shore score, it's an exceptionally tightly paced and economic machine of suspense with leads you can identify and empathize with.  Even Leto doesn't bother me here, and that's saying something.  A class director's take on a genre potboiler that elevates high above the average.

The Bad:
Not a damn thing I can think of, for my money.  If it were on bluray, I'd already have it.

I agree with all this, except where it pertains to the characters. Identifying and empathizing with the leads never came easily here, and the closest I came was with Forest Whitaker. Without that engine, the other stuff becomes a decent landscape portrait: pretty, and you can appreciate the technique, but I just can't give a damn.

I wish it played better for me, because I like the idea of big premise suspense movie contraptions, but as with the characters, I don't think there's all that much juice to squeeze out of the panic room concept.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#63
Good episode. Love that Nooj listened to all three PANIC ROOM commentaries.

The talk about films where the thieves get away with it was interesting because when THE TOWN was mentioned I immediately thought of SET IT OFF, for which I still contend THE TOWN is an unofficial remake of.

Though my favorite example of it occurring is in TRESPASS. It's not quite one of the thieves getting away with the treasure, but close enough.
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#64
I like good commentary!
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#65
Nooj sent me the Goldman one and it really is wonderful. He was such a great old coot.
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#66
GOLDMAN: “WOW! JODIE LOOKS AMAZING!!”

KOEPP: “she was pregnant during the shoot”

GOLDMAN: “REEEAAAAAAALLY??? NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING! STOCK MARKETS!”
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#67
Finch Club is back with Zodiac
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#68
For me ZODIAC is a flawless cinema machine of excellence, and possibly Fincher's best.
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#69
The question of Fincher's best is one that is getting increasingly hard to answer as we go. Although I've been more struck with how I always thought of him as the most dependable, professional craftsman around, and now I'm noticing that the duds in his filmography aren't as watchable as I assumed/remembered.
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#70
And what about The Curious Case of Benjamin Button?

Joon guests on this one.
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