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Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE POST RELEASE
Like, after “Batman and Superman fight for dumb reasons” and “Superman is dead, but then wakes up and fights our heroes”, I don’t think I could stomach a whole movie of “Lois Lane dies and Superman turns evil”.

I’d be starting to think Snyder has close to 0 interest in the actual character.
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There were a couple of lines I liked from Whedon’s that I felt were missing.
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Chopping off the epilogue is the way to go. JL was never intended to be a completely standalone film. Some loose threads were always part of the intended story.

And while I like the Knightmare sequence in BvS, I have no desire to see that movie. Especially after that shitastic epilogue in ZSJL.

(03-19-2021, 10:35 AM)levrock Wrote: The only thing I missed from the Whedon version was the Batman/Flash "Just save one" bit. Thought Flash's fear of being battle the first time (and Batman helping him conquer it) was a nice contrast to the other characters.

Yes, I liked that bit, too! Was disappointed it wasn't from Snyder's version.
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(03-19-2021, 05:09 AM)Evi Wrote: celtic singing

10 or 15 seconds of this would have been a nice, weird grace note to end the scene.

But then it continues.

And continues.

(03-19-2021, 05:26 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: Honestly, "Evil Superman" is the worst idea in all of comics. It's what you do where you don't know how to write a good Superman story.
(03-19-2021, 10:35 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: Like, after “Batman and Superman fight for dumb reasons” and “Superman is dead, but then wakes up and fights our heroes”, I don’t think I could stomach a whole movie of “Lois Lane dies and Superman turns evil”.

It's really bizarre to think that, in the original plan, we still weren't going to be getting a real, proper Superman for the bulk of the next movie!

Was not the point of killing him and bringing him back to make his return as something closer to the Superman we know have more of an impact?  I guess not!
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Snyder’s take on what’s interesting about Superman seems a world away from mine.

I’ve always thought it interesting that Karl-El decides to help. He doesn’t have to. He could just do whatever he wants. He’s not on a mission of revenge like Batman. I thought part of the point was he was raised to be a good person and care about his adopted society.

But Snyder’s take is he’s just a weapon of mass destruction who looks mostly irritated whenever he has to help someone.

I’m not gonna say the Whedon version is better in the finale, but one of the things they were clearly trying to do was make a ‘nicer’ Superman.
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In a lot of ways, the sequence with Cyborg listening to his father tell him all he's capable of and saying the challenge is deciding what NOT to do is a pretty apt description of Superman.
Just this guy, you know?
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Snyder explains the epilogue to his version of JL:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/202...-explained

For those who read the leaked storyboards, it pretty much echoes all of that.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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He lost me at 5 part trilogy. Math is hard.
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Got an hour into it last night. Pretty good. That Wonder Woman fight scene was pretty great...I don't remember if that was in the Joss cut or not but I liked it.

That said, after being into it for an hour, I kinda don't feel like we've advanced the plot at all.
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(03-19-2021, 12:02 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote: He lost me at 5 part trilogy. Math is hard.
Hey, it worked for Douglas Adams.
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(03-19-2021, 12:02 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote: He lost me at 5 part trilogy. Math is hard.

Laughed pretty fucking hard at that. God bless.

The real ending to Big...
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(03-19-2021, 12:02 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: Got an hour into it last night.  Pretty good.  That Wonder Woman fight scene was pretty great...I don't remember if that was in the Joss cut or not but I liked it.

That said, after being into it for an hour, I kinda don't feel like we've advanced the plot at all.

If you mean the terrorist bomb sequence in London, it was, but it was a truncated version. This version has a few extra beats, including Diana interacting with the schoolkids.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Diana's handling of the terrorists is much more brutal than in the Whedon cut, too.
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(03-19-2021, 01:26 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: Diana's handling of the terrorists is much more brutal than in the Whedon cut, too.

You sure about that? In the Snyder version, one of them leaves a blood smear on the wall where his head hits it.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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I’m sure belloq just mistyped
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The Snyder version is more brutal.

Is that not what I said?

"much more brutal THAN IN THE WHEDON CUT."
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Shit, yeah. My misreading. My eyes skipped over a couple of words in your post!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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I’m sure Michael just misread
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(03-19-2021, 01:50 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Shit, yeah. My misreading. My eyes skipped over a couple of words in your post!

(03-19-2021, 01:51 PM)Nooj Wrote: I’m sure Michael just misread

[Image: giphy.gif]
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I’m sure Michael just misgiffed
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[Image: giphy.gif]
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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So now I’m foolishly comparing the different versions. Whedon Supes gives us a glimpse of a what an actual Cavill Superman would have been like.

Snyder Super literally does nothing but beat the shit out of Steppenwolf in the ending. Kick, laser, punch, punch, laser. And then we get a little bit of humour about Bruce buying the bank where the Kent mortgage is at, and we do get a S logo reveal... but then it’s fucking evil Superman in that stupid epilogue.

It’s possibly the big fatal flaw in this film for me. The whole thing about bringing back Superman and he’s just extra muscle for the team and that’s it. And possibly a future threat. Gah infuriating!
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So the scene(s) with Lois and Martha at the family farm don't count?
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(03-19-2021, 03:42 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: The whole thing about bringing back Superman and he’s just extra muscle for the team and that’s it. And possibly a future threat. Gah infuriating!

Yeah, I really don't like it, either.

(03-19-2021, 03:48 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So the scene(s) with Lois and Martha at the family farm don't count?

They're nice scenes.

But the plan would have still been that Superman turns evil in the next movie. Which is a terrible, awful idea.
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(03-19-2021, 03:48 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So the scene(s) with Lois and Martha at the family farm don't count?

Well, he’s not really being Superman there.

Whedon Supes says pretty corny stuff (“Is this guy still bothering you?”) and we get the theme from the Donner film, and admittedly none of it fits within the Snyderverse... but I’ll still take a snippet of Big Blue Boy Scout over the violent, selfish, arsehole Snyder Supes.
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I realize I'm in the minority about this, but I'm so glad Holkenborg didn't use the Elfman/Williams themes for Bats and Supes.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Finally finished the damn thing after several attempts and false starts and I thought it was FUCKING AWESOME. The entire Knightmare sequence should've been dumped or at least gone in the mid-credits, but apart from that most of my complaints involve a bunch of Snyder-iness that I would not change if I could. And I agree that Superman is under-used, but the additional Flash and Cyborg elements more than make up for that.
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I don’t think those themes fitted in the theatrical version, and probably added to the overall sense of incongruity in that film.

Still, it does provoke a certain Pavlovian response from me. E.g a force for good has just arrived.
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(03-19-2021, 04:00 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: I don’t think those themes fitted in the theatrical version, and probably added to the overall sense of incongruity in that film.

Still, it does provoke a certain Pavlovian response from me. E.g a force for good has just arrived.

If anything, the MoS theme works MUCH better in this context. When Superman appears and it starts blaring, that's a moment almost made me jump to my feet.
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(03-19-2021, 03:54 PM)kriegaffe Wrote:
(03-19-2021, 03:48 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So the scene(s) with Lois and Martha at the family farm don't count?

Well, he’s not really being Superman there.

Whedon Supes says pretty corny stuff (“Is this guy still bothering you?”) and we get the theme from the Donner film, and admittedly none of it fits within the Snyderverse... but I’ll still take a snippet of Big Blue Boy Scout over the violent, selfish, arsehole Snyder Supes.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it seems like Superman was being set up for a more heroic arc in JL2. In JL1, he is the macguffin.

The Knightmare was always destined to be averted. It functions as a cautionary vision. It was probably going to be a subplot in JL2 at most.
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Superman's arrival at the climax was pretty underwhelming. He's not a character, just a muscle to beat the crap out of Steppenwolf.

Fake mustache or not, at least Whedon made Superman actually feel like SUPERMAN. In ways that was more than just punching. He got the jovial attitude, he actually interacted with the team. The only aspect of those that the Snyder footage shared with Whedon was that he had Cavill kind of smile at parts instead of looking like the sad sack he usually looked in MoS/BvS.
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(03-19-2021, 04:03 PM)kyle reese 2 Wrote:
(03-19-2021, 03:54 PM)kriegaffe Wrote:
(03-19-2021, 03:48 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So the scene(s) with Lois and Martha at the family farm don't count?

Well, he’s not really being Superman there.

Whedon Supes says pretty corny stuff (“Is this guy still bothering you?”) and we get the theme from the Donner film, and admittedly none of it fits within the Snyderverse... but I’ll still take a snippet of Big Blue Boy Scout over the violent, selfish, arsehole Snyder Supes.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it seems like Superman was being set up for a more heroic arc in JL2. In JL1, he is the macguffin.

The Knightmare was always destined to be averted. It functions as a cautionary vision. It was probably going to be a subplot in JL2 at most.

There's a few articles doing around about what a sequel (or pair of sequels) would have contained. The keen beans on Twitter are already running around with a #RestoreTheSnyderVerse .

I'm somewhat glad this movie got finished, because I found MoS And BvS interesting with great action scenes. But this one has left a nasty taste in my mouth.

I'm glad AQUAMAN ran off in a related, but completely different direction (Atlantis looks super drab in JL). And FLASH could have potential as I think Ezra Miller is fine in both JL and ZSJL.

But on the other hand, I'm ok with leaving this incarnation of Batman and Superman behind.
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Atlantis looks MISERABLE. Like, I don't blame Arthur at all for not wanting to hang around there.
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One thing I noted was I think Mera said something like her parents were killed? What about Dolph Lundgren? I suppose ZSJL isn't canon with the other movies.
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The same reason the Whedon cut had her redub all her lines without the accent, as she was not going to have it in the Aquaman film.

But I guess her having an accent is part of his vision, because he featured her in the newly shot footage with the accent as well.
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