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Marvel's BLACK WIDOW (2021): A "ScarJo wants to get paid!" Post-Release Thread
#1
It's a paradigm breaking release strategy!

We'll see how this bold strategy works out for them, Cotton.

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#2
Oh, so you won't start an post-release thread for the Overlord movie but you'll do this? I'm still not over my immeasurable disappointment of coming back from Trouble City hiatus and discovering that!

Actually quite timely as Sydney has been plunged into a lockdown (something approaching properly finally!) due to our state government screwing up ... quite a lot of things and the Delta Covid variant is running riot. So, it's actually the only way for some of us to see it in time before someone invariably spoils for us what they did to Taskmaster (which I see is already trending on Twitter).

I wonder if this is something I'll be able to shift my disappointment to, the background chatter seems to imply Taskmaster isn't Tony Masters in this one.

Remember when Taskmaster and Bullseye teamed up to kill Deadpool in The Despicable Deadpool because someone put out an anonymous contract on Deadpool for $20 million but then they stop and let him go when they find out he took the contract out on himself? If anything, they're quite offended and tell him to "seek help".

That was a good comics run.
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#3
Shan with a tone of disappointment and negativity?!

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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#4
Hey, I would have been there opening day with with my government funded voucher issued to help us stimulate the economy because of Covid-19 shutting everything down. Except they've bungled the current outbreak and so we're now confined to our homes (because things are very much not under control!) for who knows how long!

But hey, if you don't ask for better, you won't get better!

If anything, you may even get worse and Michael Bay films!

An artist's rendition of Freeman consuming product. I like to call this one "Please sir, can I have some more?"

[Image: shutterstock_5885876aa.jpg]
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#5
Shan is going full-on Princess Kate.
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#6
This isn't how Post-Relese threads are supposed to work!
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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#7
Poor taskmaster…
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#8
On a scale of zero to WandaVision, how much does the movie let Natasha off the hook for the red on her ledger?
"Such is the heroic burden. We must always mourn our fallen. Gone Forever! Dead like Robin! Like Supergirl! Deceased like Superman! Hal Jordan! All gone! I weep for them, and know that someday I shall join them. I must go weep. Like a hero." -- Kyle Baker
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#9
(07-09-2021, 11:02 AM)eviltwin Wrote: On a scale of zero to WandaVision, how much does the movie let Natasha off the hook for the red on her ledger?

There's one point where it looks like they're going to make Black Widow accountable for something hard to forgive and kinda takes it back.

It's an interesting plot development so I can let it slide.

I do wonder if they'll try to make another Black Widow movie that's stuck between Civil War and Infinity War.   I suppose you could make one during the 5 years of The Blip. 

She'll be like the Han of the MCU.
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#10
Looks like the plot leaks from last year were just bullshit.
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#11
It was the fun time you'd expect from Marvel. The climactic battle may have been just a taaaaaaad overblown (didn't need to be anywhere near that scale for a non-powered character - although some of the bumps she took through the film, maybe she IS), but it all tracked. I liked that the throwaway line from Loki in Avengers about "Dreykov's daughter" is a major part of the story here. Probably not, but I wanna take it as Marvel giving a big Fuck You to everyone who harped on and on about "we need to see what happened in Budapest!" and fleshing out the completely overlooked bit of nothing out of spite.
Harbour is great fun, as you'd expect. The contact/friend was charming ("I'm not made out of jets!"), Rachel Weiz makes the costume look crazy good at 51, Florence is believable AND adorable at the same time, somehow. I personally think she steals the show more than Harbour, but YMMV. Taskmaster is one of my favourite comic villains, and I've hated the look since it was first released. Looked better in motion but still hated how it looked like a built in pair of sunglasses. Everything else about it was done so well I didn't even care about the complete change to the character, frankly - it all tracked within the story they were telling. Overall, enjoyed it quite a bit, if maybe 10-15 minutes too long?

Stuff I can do without? Can we put an end to the "morose shoegaze female cover of an upbeat 80s/90s rock/pop classic" trope now? It got old almost instantly and years later . . . oof, this one was particularly painful.
Also, I don't get the complaints about "how am I supposed to care when I know she's gonna die anyway?" ESPECIALLY when I'm hearing it from so many people that clamoured to go see F9 and never once thought "Holy shit, they're strapping a rocket to a car and launching themselves into space - there's a good chance no one comes back from this!" Like they actually EVER consider the fates of leads in action movies. But beyond that, if someone told me a story about a friend of mine that died from years back that I wasn't around for and didn't know about, but what they did in that story had an effect on other people I know and now I have more information on why things are like they are today, my first response wouldn't be "I don't care - he's dead." I dunno. Just seems like the laziest of excuses to pre-emptively not get drawn into a story? Whatever.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#12
Wow I really liked this. Felt much closer in tone to Winter Soldier. Everything blended about right. My only real complaint and it's minor is that EVERY woman was literally mind controlled into evil. Like in The Avengers Julie Delpy was running the Red Room and I assumed would be the big bad the Natasha would have to reckon with one day or already had. This literal mind control removes all of the nuance from the new girls that made Natasha so interesting.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#13
Seeing it in about an hour. I think it looks like an absolute blast. Who cares if it's sorta typical Marvel. Good is good. You already know if you're down for it or not. 

I'm the guy who thinks Solo is underrated as hell though. There's several Star Wars movies that are worse than it. Easily. Paul Bettany's villain and the sheer amount of action and bang for your buck make it worth a watch. Rise of Skywalker deserved to flop that hard. Not it.

But anyways...aside from the song thing and landing in the three point stance making me snicker at this point....I'm psyched for this. And Eternals. And Shang Chi..

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#14
(07-09-2021, 08:51 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: But anyways...aside from the song thing and landing in the three point stance making me snicker at this point....I'm psyched for this. And Eternals. And Shang Chi..

Just keep that in the back of your mind.
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#15
I'm going to count the times it happens..

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#16
This is, almost, the best Marvel movie. Almost. It starts feeling pretty long in the tooth during the Red Room stuff at the end, the movie just kind of loses all its momentum around here, but it bounced back some when the action kicked in so at least that feeling didn't go up right to the end.

It's too bad the upcoming Shang Chi doesn't look like it's going to have more grounded action like this does, because this is probably some of the best action in a MCU movie.
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#17
(07-09-2021, 11:02 AM)eviltwin Wrote: On a scale of zero to WandaVision, how much does the movie let Natasha off the hook for the red on her ledger?

They do a lot to pretty much let nearly every character that isn't a full on bad guy off the hook. Basically mind control.  

Once they ingest the powder thing they're suddenly hepless little babes.


I think the movie is fine.  It's competently made enough that you roll with it even if there's some iffy stuff with characterization and plot.  Ithink the thing that bothered me is that even for a marvel film, it feels fairly inconsequential.  Like Natasha, despite being wanted by both the government and the Red Room, can apparently just waltz through a Russian prison to help her "dad" escape.  Yes, it's usual Marvel shenanningans, but considering that these movies--and especially this one--think of themselves as character motivated drams, it's a bit disappointing how there's no real tension in the film.  

Black Widow isn't really an ode to the character, nor is it the passing of the torch to Pugh's character some people have made it out to be.  It's just a film that feels like it was made because Marvel thought they had to.

Also the post credit scene is really bad.  The only time they even focus on her death, and it's to set up a future tv show.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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#18
I HATED what this movie did to Taskmaster.

Yet I loved Trevor.
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#19
(07-09-2021, 09:40 PM)simbob Wrote: This is, almost, the best Marvel movie. Almost.
You can't be a real person.

This was an ok Marvel movie. Weak story, good action beats, fun dialogue. I think they have a lot a great ones and only 2 turds. Put it in a grouping with Ant-Man 2, Spider-Man 2 & Guardians 2.
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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#20
(07-09-2021, 07:33 PM)the nz natural Wrote: Stuff I can do without?  Can we put an end to the "morose shoegaze female cover of an upbeat 80s/90s rock/pop classic" trope now?  It got old almost instantly and years later . . . oof, this one was particularly painful.
Also, I don't get the complaints about "how am I supposed to care when I know she's gonna die anyway?"  ESPECIALLY when I'm hearing it from so many people that clamoured to go see F9 and never once thought "Holy shit, they're strapping a rocket to a car and launching themselves into space - there's a good chance no one comes back from this!"  

It's called context.   F9 and Black Widow are two completely different kinds of action films. I can deal with F9's shenannigans because that's what the film gleefuly takes part of.  Black Widow wants to be a character focus action-drama.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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#21
(07-09-2021, 10:19 PM)ska oreo Wrote: It's called context.   F9 and Black Widow are two completely different kinds of action films. I can deal with F9's shenannigans because that's what the film gleefuly takes part of.  Black Widow wants to be a character focus action-drama.

Not in some of the instances I'm referring to.  Thinking they can differentiate the two contextually is giving far, far too much credit.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#22
I like how so many folks who live to shit on Marvel movies have seen this before me.

But yeah, no, you guys aren't really fans of this stuff and noped out after Endgame. Sure, right! I believe you.
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#23
I liked it. RED SPARROW crossed with BOURNE is exactly right.
'make sure you pay attention to the awesome suits' - Nooj on UNDERWATER
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#24
(07-09-2021, 10:18 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote:
(07-09-2021, 09:40 PM)simbob Wrote: This is, almost, the best Marvel movie. Almost.
You can't be a real person.

This was an ok Marvel movie.  Weak story, good action beats, fun dialogue.   I think they have a lot a great ones and only 2 turds.  Put it in a grouping with Ant-Man 2, Spider-Man 2 & Guardians 2.

This is light years ahead of MCU Spider-Man 2, which is basically unwatchable until the Mysterio reveal at the party. The whole opening for this is some of the best stuff in a Marvel movie. As far as the story goes I'd put it pretty far above the majority of MCU movies, same for the action. If it wasn't for the pacing problems around the end, and feeling like it was dragging for a while there, I might say it's the best MCU movie...it or Avengers Infinity War.

Ant-Man 2 and Guardians 2 are also far better than Spider-Man 2. Hell, Ant-Man 2 is better than the first one. I can't watch that first Ant-Man without seeing how Edgar Wriight would've shot or cut certain scenes, (there's like whole scenes in that movie that feel like they were just meant to be quick cuts) and how the final film is just doing shit wrong and fucking stuff up.
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#25
(07-09-2021, 10:52 PM)bradito Wrote: I like how so many folks who live to shit on Marvel movies have seen this before me.

But yeah, no, you guys aren't really fans of this stuff and noped out after Endgame. Sure, right! I believe you.

Jeez.  Even when most of us kinda think its okay you're still mad.

Forget it, Brad--it's just a Marvel film.


Shit I'll watch them--I just won't pay for them.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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#26
Great to see that Natasha is a James Bond fan and has MOONRAKER memorized.
'make sure you pay attention to the awesome suits' - Nooj on UNDERWATER
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#27
The end of this felt like a Roger Moore Bond movie.

EDIT: Right, as if the influence wasn't clear enough she's watching Moonraker haha.
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#28
Really enjoyed this. A great swansong for ScarJo and Natasha.

The fights and set pieces in this were hard hitting and well done. The third act was just nuts!

Oh and that stinger is very interesting indeed.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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#29
I wonder if the stinger plays heavily into the upcoming Disney Plus show or another movie.
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#30
I immediately thought of the new series as well so it wouldn't surprise me.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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#31
I'm guessing she shows up in the upcoming Hawkeye show. Maybe Olga Kurylenko too; I know she isn't as famous as she was before, but this seemed like a weirdly small role for her to be playing here.

But after that I'd guess Pugh is playing Black Widow 2 in other stuff and filling the same kind of role the first one did in the MCU movies.
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#32
So I want to be clear I liked this movie, so that assholes don't come in here and accuse me of hating, but I had a big problem with the Taskmaster take in this movie. It was probably the only real issue I had with the whole thing.

1) Making Taskmaster who the character is in this movie takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of the mistakes of Natasha's past. She's only responsible for some scarring! The bad guy did the evvvvvvvil parts! It's OK Disney audiences!

2) The design is the shits. It's BMX Goblin from Spider-Man 3 all over again. Half of the appeal of the character is the cool skull mask and you removed that.

3) The photographic memory power is half baked. We see a little bit of how promising and cool the power can be. Taskmaster almost instantly uses Natasha's spinny leg head thing to counter her in their first fight. It's alarming to think about trying to fight someone who will literally be able to counter anything you ever try to do if you try it twice. It's really cool stuff, and along with the cool look, it's the other reason Taskmaster is a beloved character. But then it just... Kind of goes nowhere. She uses Black Panther claws and the Shield like Cap, but you never have that moment. That final fight scene where Natasha finally figures out how to get around the photographic memory. A flashbang, or all four members of the family fight her at once to overwhelm her, or Natasha gets crazy Jackie Chan creative and is forced to fight using weird creative unique moves she's never tried before that get progressively more creative, because it's the only way she can land a hit... The photographic memory becomes nothing and goes nowhere. The entire point of giving a bad guy that power is for the hero to find a way to beat it!

4) Taskmaster is sympathetic. She's a victim, of Natasha and her Father. By the end of the story it's implied she's free and not a bad guy anymore. So no more bad guy Taskmaster in the MCU Marvel fans. No training the bad guys armies, no fighting other iconic Marvel heroes. What a total waste.

I loved the Trevor reveal in Iron Man 3 because 1) I thought on it's own it was great fun and 2) We're getting a more "proper" Mandarin that avoids racial stereotypes anyway, which was implied long ago with that short. This is just... Bad.
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#33
Yeah I actually liked the Taskmaster reveal at first but now sitting with it im way less into it. And really shouldn't Red Guardian be stronger than her to such a degree that all her fancy moves don't matter? Is this super soldier serum rare or not?
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#34
Taskmasker bounces back and forth between training bad guys and good guys in the comics all the time, so I wouldn't really worry about it. If she is working for the same people the new Black Widow is than she'll be working for the bad guys the next time you see her.

Do agree on the movies take on the costume being pretty lame. It's like one step away from being Agents of SHIELD bad. Some of that is just that they're doing a worse version of the Udon version of Taskmaster, but some of that I'd guess comes from trying to hide that this Taskmaster is a woman. The frustrating thing about this movies look for Taskmaster is it actually looks kind of cool with the red light that goes back and forth on the visor is right in the middle because it looks like an eye, but we almost never see it in the middle looking like a eye. This Taskmaster however does still have a skull mask, it's not as skull as the comic book versions, but it's still a skull mask. Beside trying to hide this Taskmaster is a woman, I'm sure they want you to think this one is a robot.

Mandarin looks so fucking lame in that new Shang-Chi movie. They're so afraid of doing anything they ended up doing nothing. The funny thing is the cool looking comic book Mandarin with long hair, a goatee, and nice robes wouldn't look out of place in any number of fantasy films that come out of China and Hong Kong ever year.

(07-10-2021, 06:28 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: Yeah I actually liked the Taskmaster reveal at first but now sitting with it im way less into it. And really shouldn't Red Guardian be stronger than her to such a degree that all her fancy moves don't matter? Is this super soldier serum rare or not?

Red Guardian, while strong, does not seem to be Captain America strong in this movie. Movie Captain America would have had no problems running up to that plane or just jump right up all that stuff at the prison. Taskmaster also seems to have some degree of superhuman strength given she throws her shield into steel in that subway. She could have some type of super soldier serum, or it could be she's got robot parts.

It is kind of funny that this is coming after Falcon and the Winter Soldier though. Taskmaster being able to perfectly copy Captain America's shield throw seems a little less special when even normal guy Falcon can pick it up after training a bit.
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#35
This wasn't terrible. Darker than the usual MCU film and Pugh is the standout here.

Action choreography could be improved though. A little too much cutting.

I'll give this a 6.5/10.
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