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Daredevil discussion
Quote:

walter-konkrete:
As per DD's killing people, its a big departure from the comics, but its clearly stuck in the movie to give matt murdock a character arc.

DD, unlike every other movie superhero we've seen, doesn't merely go through a transformation from regular guy to full-fledged, morally superior superhero, he transforms twice, once to an angry vigilante, and then in the end to a true "hero". Without this angle, daredevil in the movie is just a low-rent batman

</strong>

Guess you're right. Not like there's:

* His romance with Elektra
* His transformation from an orphaned blind kid into the well-off lawyer/fighting machine he is today.
* His relationship with the Kingpin and the effect it's had on his family
* His contentious relationship with the justice system
* His relationship with Foggy
* His inability to let someone fully into his life

And those are just SOME of the issues that just pertain to Matt alone. The movie is filled with other characters who could additionally flesh things out.

It's a character arc that makes no sense. He's no hero. He always, even until the end, makes the selfish choice. He refuses to face the law for his murder earlier in the film and for his accused murder of Elektra's father. He refuses to kill the Kingpin because of his newfound "conscience," instead preferring to allow him to return to wreak more havoc.

In this film, Daredevil is one step short of a coward.

Quote:

Why does he not kill the kingpin? well the movie clearly wants us to see that he has learned that killing only creates more killing. Also, i took his refusal to kill fisk as a sort of acknowledgemnet that the only way to truly destroy him is to keep him alive so he can be put on trial and all his enterprises exposed.

</strong>

And what of MATT's transgressions? Is he above the law? He kills and runs away, refusing to face the law. the Kingpin kills, and all of a sudden he has to be brought down and imprisoned at all costs?

Let's not forget that just MOMENTS earlier, he basically tried to kill Bullseye to end their fight.

Quote:

Of course, the way Johnson contextualizes daredevil is, in concept, very interesting. The line "I hope you find justice before it finds you" is great. I liked the concept of a lawyer who, through his superior powers can see through the lies that can de-rail the justice system, and I think characterizing Murdock as a wrathful vigilante really gave daredevil an aspect that set him apart and some room to grow and transform.

</strong>

But did the justice system fail or did MATT MURDOCK fail?

Having a high-priced lawyer cannot guarantee acquital. It may make it more likely, but if you're guilty as sin and facing a competent prosecutor, you're dead as dickens.

That's my point. Murdock isn't correcting the justice system. he's satisfying his own ego so that when he determines guilt, they don't escape swift punishment one way or the other.

And making Daredevil a wrathful vigilante sets him apart from what exactly? Now he's The Punisher.

Quote:

Just what could be done with that rapist? he was already tried and found innocent? Would it have been better if he copped a forced confession thanks to the beating he was given like in Batman comics? That would be ridiculous. I like the way MSJ gves daredevil a journey to his true heroism and a realization that a superior ability to "see" guilt still does not give him the wisdom to see all the consequnecs of his own lethal judgement.

</strong>

Just to be sure here, are you saying that murder was his only option?

What about when he loses a case to someone who simply beat another man? Does he die, too?

What about when he loses a case to someone who stole millions in corporate embezzling? Does he die?

What Johnson did by setting him up as a killer and making him "a hero" was trap into a paradox.

He's supposedly eschewed killing, but now what does he do when he loses a case against an obviously guilty criminal? Beat him? Follow him around? Scare him? Will any of that deter the guy from doing it again? How is any of that justice?

Quote:

the elektra/bullseye story line and elektra's death was clearly intended to highlight this. her death was supposed to be the event that opened matt's eyes to the consequneces of his blood for blood style of justice. In this truncated film, this is clearly lost and muddled.

</strong>

Even here, he STILL tries to kill Bullseye to end their battle. You don't toss someone out of a stained glass window from high up in the hopes of merely injuring them.
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Messages In This Thread
Daredevil discussion - by flyarz - 02-11-2003, 01:33 AM
[No subject] - by jd is agent fixxxer - 02-11-2003, 02:53 AM
[No subject] - by smilin' jack ruby - 02-11-2003, 04:06 AM
[No subject] - by sean bateman - 02-11-2003, 05:07 AM
[No subject] - by flyarz - 02-11-2003, 05:53 AM
[No subject] - by anger management - 02-11-2003, 08:30 AM
[No subject] - by flyarz - 02-11-2003, 01:44 PM
[No subject] - by thebandit: cunning linguist - 02-11-2003, 01:54 PM
[No subject] - by flyarz - 02-11-2003, 02:31 PM
[No subject] - by lamotta - 02-11-2003, 05:07 PM
[No subject] - by michael rabattino - 02-11-2003, 05:36 PM
[No subject] - by greg clark - 02-11-2003, 06:36 PM
[No subject] - by zalasta - 02-11-2003, 07:34 PM
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[No subject] - by cesar - 02-12-2003, 05:51 AM
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[No subject] - by el gray - 02-12-2003, 11:07 PM
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[No subject] - by micah robinson - 02-13-2003, 02:38 AM
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[No subject] - by thebandit: cunning linguist - 02-13-2003, 02:22 PM
[No subject] - by greg clark - 02-13-2003, 03:47 PM
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[No subject] - by anger management - 02-15-2003, 02:37 AM
[No subject] - by thebandit: cunning linguist - 02-15-2003, 03:01 AM
[No subject] - by nerv personnel - 02-15-2003, 04:33 AM
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[No subject] - by devincf - 02-15-2003, 05:57 AM
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[No subject] - by thebandit: cunning linguist - 02-16-2003, 07:47 PM
[No subject] - by jason penopolis (renfield) - 02-16-2003, 10:23 PM
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[No subject] - by jason penopolis (renfield) - 02-17-2003, 04:24 AM
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[No subject] - by dan whitehead - 02-17-2003, 08:54 AM
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[No subject] - by devincf - 02-18-2003, 04:41 AM
[No subject] - by chavez - 02-18-2003, 05:31 AM
[No subject] - by jacob singer - 02-18-2003, 05:48 AM
[No subject] - by Kevin Matchstick - 02-18-2003, 05:49 AM
[No subject] - by Richard Dickson - 02-18-2003, 06:17 AM
[No subject] - by devincf - 02-18-2003, 06:22 AM
[No subject] - by thomas.galvin - 02-18-2003, 04:36 PM
[No subject] - by isao kanemasa - 02-18-2003, 06:27 PM
[No subject] - by walter-konkrete - 02-18-2003, 06:34 PM
[No subject] - by thomas.galvin - 02-18-2003, 08:02 PM
[No subject] - by ryo hazuki - 02-19-2003, 09:31 PM
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[No subject] - by isao kanemasa - 02-20-2003, 07:02 PM
[No subject] - by danco_2000 - 02-20-2003, 07:31 PM
[No subject] - by dennis - 02-20-2003, 07:35 PM
[No subject] - by jd is agent fixxxer - 02-20-2003, 10:24 PM
[No subject] - by sean bateman - 02-20-2003, 11:35 PM
[No subject] - by damon houx - 02-20-2003, 11:54 PM
[No subject] - by gandalf?s father - 02-20-2003, 11:56 PM
[No subject] - by michael rabattino - 02-20-2003, 11:56 PM
[No subject] - by sean bateman - 02-21-2003, 12:18 AM
[No subject] - by Richard Dickson - 02-21-2003, 05:18 AM
[No subject] - by jd is agent fixxxer - 02-21-2003, 06:56 AM
[No subject] - by dan whitehead - 02-21-2003, 01:58 PM
[No subject] - by dan whitehead - 02-21-2003, 02:05 PM
[No subject] - by lamotta - 02-21-2003, 09:07 PM
[No subject] - by micah robinson - 02-21-2003, 09:13 PM
[No subject] - by dennis - 02-21-2003, 09:15 PM
[No subject] - by walter-konkrete - 02-21-2003, 09:26 PM
[No subject] - by django - 02-22-2003, 02:27 AM
[No subject] - by lamotta - 02-22-2003, 02:50 AM
[No subject] - by jd is agent fixxxer - 02-22-2003, 05:01 AM
[No subject] - by sean bateman - 02-22-2003, 06:38 AM
[No subject] - by walter-konkrete - 02-22-2003, 10:48 PM
[No subject] - by general zod - 02-23-2003, 07:21 AM
[No subject] - by charlie brigden - 02-24-2003, 07:44 PM
[No subject] - by greyfalco - 02-24-2003, 11:29 PM
[No subject] - by blunt - 03-20-2003, 07:29 PM
[No subject] - by MrSaxon - 06-17-2016, 02:24 PM

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